THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
 
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11/01/10 10:28 AM

ChaseNine posted:
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The Perfect Chris posted:
Dark Knight Rises isn't that great of a title. I mean, has the dark knight not already risen?
I wouldn't be surprised if it exists only becasue some Warner Bros. suit said it need to contain 'The Dark Knight" in it. But hey, fuck it the title doesn't even matter, is a Batman movie.

Seriously... he did already rise up and take care of shit. Thus why I think the title sucks..... You are probably right though. I bet Warner Bros. wanted to harvest a little more green from the second highest grossing film of all time. So why not keep The Dark Knight in the new title? lmao, this is a damn joke....

you really think the studio execs were cool with Nolan dropping "Batman" altogether and just going with "The Dark Knight" for the sequel's title?

apply the same logic you're putting on "The Dark Knight Rises" to the conversation that undoubtedly happened over TDK:
panicked Studio Suit- "you can't have a Batman movie that doesn't have 'Batman' in the title! no one's ever done it before! people will be CONFUSED! it'll NEVER WORK!!!

Nolan had to fight for that title. and i think he did a pretty good job alleviating the studio's worst fears. at this point in the relationship, i'm fairly sure he can title it just about whatever he damn well pleases and WB will go along with it just fine.

as for "Rises" being redundant: no, The Dark Knight has not already risen; in Begins, he's only just started to establish his prescence in the conciousness of Gotham. in TDK, that prescence is challenged, tested to the limit, and essentially, broken by what the Joker had done. Batman was, as far as the public knew, a villain; labeled murderer, cop killer, deemed outcast by his one ally in the GCPD. by the end of the second film, The Dark Knight Falls.

think back on the childhood memory Bruce Wayne flashes back to in Batman Begins, the one where his father rescues him in the cave. he tells him, "why do we fall, Bruce? so we can pick ourselves up again."

the third film is where Gotham as a whole comes to realize that Batman is not only the hero it needed, but also the one it desereved. this is when he TRULY rises.

 

11/01/10 4:54 PM

DistantStorm posted:

you really think the studio execs were cool with Nolan dropping "Batman" altogether and just going with "The Dark Knight" for the sequel's title?

Ummm, yeah. Obviously they did that, didn't they? Not to mention, The Dark Knight was an original title (a comic? I don't know.. thats just heresay, but whocares, its cool)
but uh. Is this an argument? I don't see where your going with this.


I agree with this...
DistantStorm posted:
the third film is where Gotham as a whole comes to realize that Batman is not only the hero it needed, but also the one it desereved. this is when he TRULY rises.
---
.....by the end of the second film, The Dark Knight Falls.
Yeah, okay. He does TRULY rise. He is finally the hero and gets recognition. Let's throw a party.



...and I disagree with this:
DistantStorm posted:
in TDK, that prescence is challenged, tested to the limit, and essentially, broken by what the Joker had done.
Now, see, I don't understand your logic with this statement. He is BROKEN and tested. Tested, and he does survive, but doesn't that mean he ROSE to a challenge, doesn't that mean he ROSE above the joker breaking him? You seem to contradict what you're saying, but whatever.




Let me rephrase. Batman three SHOULD BE CALLED

BATMAN: CHAMPION OF GOTHAM

BECAUSE
A: He finally realizes and embraces his full potential (or lets hope so) and
B: He isn't RISING but has already RISEN and is therefore a hero, or, CHAMPION, DURING FILM THREE of the city he is protecting.


/sequel titles



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2010 04:55PM by ChaseNine.

 

11/01/10 6:04 PM

Champion Of Gotham sounds way too cheesy for Nolanverse.

 

11/01/10 9:47 PM

ChaseNine posted:
DistantStorm posted:

you really think the studio execs were cool with Nolan dropping "Batman" altogether and just going with "The Dark Knight" for the sequel's title?

Ummm, yeah. Obviously they did that, didn't they? Not to mention, The Dark Knight was an original title (a comic? I don't know.. thats just heresay, but whocares, its cool)
but uh. Is this an argument? I don't see where your going with this.

it's not that hard. you were discussing how the title was probably a studio decision to cash in on the sucess of TDK. i'm saying since WB was reluctant to go with "The Dark Knight" in the FIRST PLACE, because it was abandoning the Batman "brand recognition", i don't see anyone but Nolan having the final say on the title.

it was HIS idea to call the sequel TDK, and he had to fight for it. if the sequel is called The Dark Knight Rises, it's because Nolan, and NOT the studio, wants that for the title. WB wouldn't dare piss off their golden boy by saddling him with a title he didn't like.


ChaseNine posted:
I agree with this...
DistantStorm posted:
the third film is where Gotham as a whole comes to realize that Batman is not only the hero it needed, but also the one it desereved. this is when he TRULY rises.
---
.....by the end of the second film, The Dark Knight Falls.
Yeah, okay. He does TRULY rise. He is finally the hero and gets recognition. Let's throw a party.

...and I disagree with this:
DistantStorm posted:
in TDK, that prescence is challenged, tested to the limit, and essentially, broken by what the Joker had done.
Now, see, I don't understand your logic with this statement. He is BROKEN and tested. Tested, and he does survive, but doesn't that mean he ROSE to a challenge, doesn't that mean he ROSE above the joker breaking him? You seem to contradict what you're saying, but whatever.

where is the contradiction in this? his and Gordon's victory over the Joker is known only by the two of them, and came at the price of his childhood friend, an honest DA, and any semblance of public trust he'd gained up to that point. if you want to view that as having "risen" above the Joker's challenge, suit yourself. you're getting hung up in the semantics of the term here. he'll have to clear his name and gain the respect of the city before he can be said to really "rise".

feel free to continue with your dismissive condescension, though, if it makes you feel better.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2010 12:26AM by DistantStorm.

 

11/01/10 10:15 PM

speaking of Nolanverse, Nolan has kinda set a challenge on what villains he can use given the realistic setting the films are in.

 

11/02/10 12:36 AM

^ I want to see to the Madhatter as a villian. I think giving the realistic setting, it's do-able. And not too campy...

 

11/02/10 12:47 AM

Also, they could easily tie-in Catwoman because Falcone was in both Batman Begins & the Dark Knight.

 

11/02/10 2:16 PM

Clayface in the Mix?


Rumor has is that Charlize Theron and a few other Hollywood beauties have been are being courted for the new love interests in The Dark Knight Rises. But even more excitingly, one of these ladies could bring Clayface with her.

Comic Book Movie got a tip that Theron has been approached to play Detective Sarah Essen, who will be the love interest for Jim Gordon. This character winds up having an affair with Gordon, and it's implied that Essen might be shown to be the real mother of Batgirl. Odd, as we thought Nolan already addressed the Batgirl story, in Batman Begins, perhaps not.

The next big tip from CMB is the one that has us really excited — actresses Kacie Thomas and Vera Farmiga have both auditioned for the role of Julie Madison, a possible Bruce Wayne love interest. These are two very different actresses indeed, and honestly we hope they go with Farmiga, but let's focus on the character Madison for now. Madison is a socialite/actress, who was actually engaged to Bruce at some point or another. Still the most interesting thing about Madison is her involvement with the villain Clayface. Madison is eventually cast to remake a classic film that originally starred B-list movie star Basil Karlo, an actor not handling his aging very gracefully. Naturally Kalo is beyond pissed about the remake, and decides to start murdering all of the people involved, until Batman intervenes. Who knows if this storyline would turn up in the film, but the Clayface-Julie Madison connection seems promising.

I know these rumors are a little heartbreaking for Catwoman fans, but this totally backs up our previous guess that Clayface would turn up in this film. Plus the vain-actor version of Clayface is just dying for the gritty Nolan touch. This storyline is almost too perfect in its timeliness, with all the remakes running rampant in Hollywood.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2010 02:16PM by cadair8.

 

11/02/10 2:40 PM

blues4Agun posted:
^ I want to see to the Madhatter as a villian. I think giving the realistic setting, it's do-able. And not too campy...

That's exactly who I wanna see actually.

Penguin would be great especially if they got Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

 

11/02/10 10:41 PM

blues4Agun posted:
Also, they could easily tie-in Catwoman because Falcone was in both Batman Begins & the Dark Knight.
I have been saying this ever since The Dark knight came out. I mean, she is such a Year One Batman Character and aside from Alfred and Gordon, easily the most important one. With Rachel gone, there is obviously room for her. Also, with Harvey gone, as well as The Joker, I really almost can't see Catwoman not being in this movie.

 

11/03/10 6:14 AM

Now that we know that "Batman 3" is actually called "The Dark Knight Rises" and that it has Tom Hardy (Inception) on board and will not feature The Riddler, it's time to finish putting together the rest of the cast.

CBM has learned that Charlize Theron has been approached to play Detective Sarah Essen, who is partnered with James Gordon. The two end up having an affair and she is eventually murdered by The Joker. It was hinted that she is the real mother of Barbara Gordon (aka Batgirl).

Meanwhile Vera Farmiga and Kacie Thomas have already auditioned for the role of Julie Madison, who is a socialite engaged to Bruce Wayne. She is not aware of Wayne's secret identity and is often used as a pawn in the vampiric Monk's battle with Batman. She has also been associated with the villain Clayface.

Read more: [worstpreviews.com]


It's essentially what I already posted up there, but slightly different lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2010 06:15AM by cadair8.

 

11/06/10 2:47 PM

cadair8 posted:
Clayface in the Mix?


Rumor has is that Charlize Theron and a few other Hollywood beauties have been are being courted for the new love interests in The Dark Knight Rises. But even more excitingly, one of these ladies could bring Clayface with her.

Comic Book Movie got a tip that Theron has been approached to play Detective Sarah Essen, who will be the love interest for Jim Gordon. This character winds up having an affair with Gordon, and it's implied that Essen might be shown to be the real mother of Batgirl. Odd, as we thought Nolan already addressed the Batgirl story, in Batman Begins, perhaps not.

The next big tip from CMB is the one that has us really excited — actresses Kacie Thomas and Vera Farmiga have both auditioned for the role of Julie Madison, a possible Bruce Wayne love interest. These are two very different actresses indeed, and honestly we hope they go with Farmiga, but let's focus on the character Madison for now. Madison is a socialite/actress, who was actually engaged to Bruce at some point or another. Still the most interesting thing about Madison is her involvement with the villain Clayface. Madison is eventually cast to remake a classic film that originally starred B-list movie star Basil Karlo, an actor not handling his aging very gracefully. Naturally Kalo is beyond pissed about the remake, and decides to start murdering all of the people involved, until Batman intervenes. Who knows if this storyline would turn up in the film, but the Clayface-Julie Madison connection seems promising.

I know these rumors are a little heartbreaking for Catwoman fans, but this totally backs up our previous guess that Clayface would turn up in this film. Plus the vain-actor version of Clayface is just dying for the gritty Nolan touch. This storyline is almost too perfect in its timeliness, with all the remakes running rampant in Hollywood.

I'm not sold on this idea. Part of what makes Nolan's reboot unique is that it has gotten rid of the ridiculously campy elements of the Batman Universe. R'as didn't have his Lazarus Pits and the Joker didn't fall into a vat of fucking chemicals. They were real villains with real motivations (as opposed to the "I was disfigured and now I'm bitter so I'm going to dress up like a pimp and knock over liquor stores" ). The Clayface scenario would be a step in the opposite direction.

However, if Clayface is to play a part in the next movie, Nolan had better be in negotiations to get Ron Perlman on board to play the part.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2010 02:47PM by Riktor.

 

11/07/10 12:49 AM

Riktor posted:
cadair8 posted:
Clayface in the Mix?


Rumor has is that Charlize Theron and a few other Hollywood beauties have been are being courted for the new love interests in The Dark Knight Rises. But even more excitingly, one of these ladies could bring Clayface with her.

Comic Book Movie got a tip that Theron has been approached to play Detective Sarah Essen, who will be the love interest for Jim Gordon. This character winds up having an affair with Gordon, and it's implied that Essen might be shown to be the real mother of Batgirl. Odd, as we thought Nolan already addressed the Batgirl story, in Batman Begins, perhaps not.

The next big tip from CMB is the one that has us really excited — actresses Kacie Thomas and Vera Farmiga have both auditioned for the role of Julie Madison, a possible Bruce Wayne love interest. These are two very different actresses indeed, and honestly we hope they go with Farmiga, but let's focus on the character Madison for now. Madison is a socialite/actress, who was actually engaged to Bruce at some point or another. Still the most interesting thing about Madison is her involvement with the villain Clayface. Madison is eventually cast to remake a classic film that originally starred B-list movie star Basil Karlo, an actor not handling his aging very gracefully. Naturally Kalo is beyond pissed about the remake, and decides to start murdering all of the people involved, until Batman intervenes. Who knows if this storyline would turn up in the film, but the Clayface-Julie Madison connection seems promising.

I know these rumors are a little heartbreaking for Catwoman fans, but this totally backs up our previous guess that Clayface would turn up in this film. Plus the vain-actor version of Clayface is just dying for the gritty Nolan touch. This storyline is almost too perfect in its timeliness, with all the remakes running rampant in Hollywood.

I'm not sold on this idea. Part of what makes Nolan's reboot unique is that it has gotten rid of the ridiculously campy elements of the Batman Universe. R'as didn't have his Lazarus Pits and the Joker didn't fall into a vat of fucking chemicals. They were real villains with real motivations (as opposed to the "I was disfigured and now I'm bitter so I'm going to dress up like a pimp and knock over liquor stores" ). The Clayface scenario would be a step in the opposite direction.

However, if Clayface is to play a part in the next movie, Nolan had better be in negotiations to get Ron Perlman on board to play the part.

Honestly though, maybe adding a villian with actual superpowers wouldn't be such a terrible thing. I mean, Batman fought them in the comics all the time. In fact, a villain with abilities would make for an even more dangerous foe, since Nolan's Batman takes place in the "real world". It would be a threat no one, not even Bruce, would know how to deal with and if handled correctly, I don't think it would be too far outside the realm of Nolan's universe.

 

11/07/10 12:11 PM

i can't see that kind of departure being made for the third film in the series. i mean, if he had wanted to, Nolan would've introduced supernatural elements in the first movie with R'as Al G'hul.

that's not the kind of story he's telling, though. i think he's been pretty clear on keeping his Gotham as grounded in reality as possible; The Dark Knight is closer to a noirish crime drama than a superhero comic book movie. villians with any kind of supernormal powers or abilities just don't seem like his style.

that being said, it will be interesting to see what antagonists DO end up being chosen, since of the remaining Rogue's Gallery heavy hitters, those that have not already been ruled out (Penguin, Riddler) tend to have some kind of fantastic ability (Poison Ivy, Clayface, Mr. Freeze.)

it's also hard to imagine the likes of Scarface or Killer Croc in Nolan's Gotham. aside from Catwoman and Deadshot (both of whom i hope will make appearances) i really have no idea where he'll take it. can't wait to find out, though!

 

11/10/10 10:07 AM

patrick_nicholas posted:
"The Dark Knight 2" or "The Darker Knight" for the lulz.

The Dark Knight 2: Dark Knighter.

DistantStorm posted:
i can't see that kind of departure being made for the third film in the series. i mean, if he had wanted to, Nolan would've introduced supernatural elements in the first movie with R'as Al G'hul.

And he didn't?

I always thought Ra's was portrayed 'just' ambiguously enough. That scene where they're in Wayne Manor at the party?

"You're not Ra's al Ghul. I watched him die. "
"But is Ra's al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?"
"Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, 'Ra's'?"

It's never outright said whether it's one or the other.

 

11/10/10 12:55 PM

If this is suppose to be the last part of a trilogy Dark Knight Rises does not sound like a final film.

 

11/10/10 4:34 PM

OnslaughtSix posted:
DistantStorm posted:
i can't see that kind of departure being made for the third film in the series. i mean, if he had wanted to, Nolan would've introduced supernatural elements in the first movie with R'as Al G'hul.

And he didn't?

I always thought Ra's was portrayed 'just' ambiguously enough. That scene where they're in Wayne Manor at the party?

"You're not Ra's al Ghul. I watched him die. "
"But is Ra's al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?"
"Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, 'Ra's'?"

It's never outright said whether it's one or the other.

i had that very scene in mind when i was writing out my previous response, and you're right; there is some ambiguity there. but i think the lines spoken by Neeson were just Nolan's concession to the comic book origins of the character.

everything Bruce learned from his time w/ the League of Shadows, stressed mastery of physical and environmental elements, to give theimpression of the mystical and unearthly. nothing about it actually crossed the line into supernatural.

even the Batmobile's rooftop flight plan was given an explanation. nothing exists in Nolan's Gotham that cannot be given a realistic justification of some kind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2010 04:36PM by DistantStorm.

 

11/10/10 10:02 PM

OnslaughtSix posted:

I always thought Ra's was portrayed 'just' ambiguously enough. That scene where they're in Wayne Manor at the party?

"You're not Ra's al Ghul. I watched him die. "
"But is Ra's al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?"
"Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, 'Ra's'?"

It's never outright said whether it's one or the other.

I think the delivery says it all. It was a cheap parlor trick. That was what the League of Shadows was all about: creating fear through misdirection and misinformation.

 

11/25/10 10:13 AM

The Dark Knight Rises will be Christian Bale's last Batman film

After shooting the third Caped Crusader flick for Christopher Nolan next year, Christian Bale will hang up the cape and cowl for good.

While out doing press for The Fighter—which also gave us the "Mark Walhberg hates The Happening" nugget from yesterday—Bale let slip that The Dark Knight Rises will be his final go-round as the protector of Gotham City: "I believe, unless Chris (Nolan) says different, this will be the last time I'm playing Batman."

Which also leads us to believe that The Dark Knight Rises will be Nolan's final film in the Batman franchise as well, as we can't imagine the director continuing without his frequent collaborator. Not that Bale knows much of anything Bat-related:

"Chris will let me know what I need to know when I need to know it. I probably know a little bit more than some other people out there, but I think most people would be surprised at how little I do know."

 

11/29/10 11:35 AM

it's going to be based off of the PREY comic series

 

11/29/10 12:05 PM

Can't say I agree with the new title. Seems too derivative. All I can hope is that it doesn't suck like Batman Begins, and that the plot is less deus-ex machina than The Dark Knight. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved TDK and consider it the best Batman movie ever made, but the overall plot was something of a farce.

 

11/29/10 12:56 PM

piggypedals posted:
If this is suppose to be the last part of a trilogy Dark Knight Rises does not sound like a final film.

I commend piggyedals for saying what I am trying to say. In one sentence.




DistantStorm posted:
it was HIS idea to call the sequel TDK, and he had to fight for it. if the sequel is called The Dark Knight Rises, it's because Nolan, and NOT the studio, wants that for the title. WB wouldn't dare piss off their golden boy by saddling him with a title he didn't like.

You have proof of this? That Nolan chose the title? Show me.


DistantStorm posted:
where is the contradiction in this? his and Gordon's victory over the Joker is known only by the two of them, and came at the price of his childhood friend, an honest DA, and any semblance of public trust he'd gained up to that point. if you want to view that as having "risen" above the Joker's challenge, suit yourself. you're getting hung up in the semantics of the term here. he'll have to clear his name and gain the respect of the city before he can be said to really "rise".

UmmmmK.
So you're saying that he DID NOT rise above the bullshit???

By bullshit, I mean this: his and Gordon's victory over the Joker is known only by the two of them, and came at the price of his childhood friend, an honest DA, and any semblance of public trust he'd gained up to that point

And he isn't rising above that hardship? A victory, however small right?
Uh. Okay..
Still contradictory.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2010 01:03PM by ChaseNine.

 

11/29/10 1:00 PM

DistantStorm posted:
OnslaughtSix posted:
DistantStorm posted:
i can't see that kind of departure being made for the third film in the series. i mean, if he had wanted to, Nolan would've introduced supernatural elements in the first movie with R'as Al G'hul.

And he didn't?

I always thought Ra's was portrayed 'just' ambiguously enough. That scene where they're in Wayne Manor at the party?

"You're not Ra's al Ghul. I watched him die. "
"But is Ra's al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?"
"Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, 'Ra's'?"

It's never outright said whether it's one or the other.

i had that very scene in mind when i was writing out my previous response, and you're right; there is some ambiguity there. but i think the lines spoken by Neeson were just Nolan's concession to the comic book origins of the character.

everything Bruce learned from his time w/ the League of Shadows, stressed mastery of physical and environmental elements, to give theimpression of the mystical and unearthly. nothing about it actually crossed the line into supernatural.

even the Batmobile's rooftop flight plan was given an explanation. nothing exists in

Nolan's Gotham that cannot be given a realistic justification of some kind.

lol. What a waste of space in this thread... We already know there is already a realistic justification for everything in Batman. That's why it's the coolest superhero movie made so far. That's why Spiderman sucks. Can we move on..

 

11/30/10 5:25 PM

HEATH LEDGER IN NEW BATMAN MOVIE?


Christopher Nolan is reportedly considering using previously unseen footage of Heath Ledger in the new Batman movie.

The director confirmed he would be helming the third instalment of the popular franchise, entitled The Dark Knight Rises, earlier this year. He called the movie "inevitable", and admitted he is excited to start work on it.

Late actor Heath Ledger won a post-humous Oscar for his portrayal of the Joker in 2008 film The Dark Knight, and it has been suggested Christopher is keen to pay tribute to him.

"The idea is to use these fragments of cut scenes and use CGI to have The Joker appear one last time," a source explained. "Chris wants some continuity between movies and for the franchise to pay tribute to Heath and his portrayal of the Joker."

It is thought only a snippet of footage will be used, although the plan is only in the early stages at the moment. If it goes ahead it is likely to be a hit with fans and industry professionals alike, as Heath's portrayal of the Joker has gone down in film history as one of the most intense depictions of a character ever seen.

"It would only be a fleeting moment in the movie and would only be included with the full consent of Heath's family," the source added.

stuff.co.nz

 

12/01/10 3:20 PM

Champion of Gotham would work as a comic book, but as a movie? Waaaay too campy.

My pick would be Knightfall, but that's just me. I'd also like to see Deadshot as the villain.

 

12/01/10 9:59 PM

I personally think they should bring King Tut and Egghead into the mix.....but that's just me.

 

12/03/10 1:27 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/onedeterminedflash/other/185997502.png?1291407589

full disclosure: this is total speculation and wishful thinking. it's a completely fan made poster, if Black Mask would be the villian in The Dark Knight Rises. no way of knowing if that is the case. i just thought it looked really cool. taken from this [twitpic.com]

 

12/15/10 4:42 PM

is this a legitimate leak, or clever ruse to distract people?

The Dark Knight Rises Enlists Dr. Hugo Strange, Black Mask, Talia Al Ghul, and Killer Croc

"A leaked copy of Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises script has landed on-line, and its verification as the real thing has only been confirmed by how quickly it has been ripped down.

* Black Mask takes over Gotham's criminal underworld replacing Salvatore Ramoni
* Dr. Hugo Strange is the main villain of the movie
* Talia al Ghul wants revenge on Bruce Wayne
* Killer Croc is just the meathead to takedown the Batman."

FULL ARTICLE HERE

what are your thoughts?

 

01/19/11 12:31 PM

looks like the official roles have been revealed!

Anne Hathaway to play Catwoman, Tom Hardy to play Bane in The Dark Knight Rises

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/1626228-batpeeps_super.png
posted:
"On Wednesday, Warner Brothers Pictures announced a new cast member and clarified the role of another for “The Dark Knight Rises,” the third Batman movie to be directed by Christopher Nolan, the “Inception” and “Memento” filmmaker. Joining Christian Bale, who returns as Batman and his daytime alter ego, Bruce Wayne, is Anne Hathaway (of “Love and Other Drugs”) who will play Selina Kyle; the film will also feature Tom Hardy, a co-star of “Inception,” as a villain named Bane.

As comic-book fans know, the Selina Kyle character is the secret identity of Batman’s sometime paramour (and sometime foe) Catwoman, and Bane is a muscular bad guy powered by an addictive drug called Venom."
FULL ARTICLE

 

01/19/11 11:57 PM

Not to sound cocky but... I FUCKIN TOLD YOU SO!

 
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