my thoughts on what to do as a new / unknown artist

my thoughts on what to do as a new / unknown artist

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07/09/09 6:50 AM
juniperus member fools not suffered gladly Joined: 03/20/09 Location: inside the kiln Posts: 986	Absolutely! Brilliant advice, and thank you for putting it out there again: it is, spot-on, what I will respond to as a consumer: I almost never listen to radio (just NPR- and didn't even back in the day, apart from college stations), I don't have an effing MySpace (jeebus, but that site annoys the ever-lovin crap outta me) nor do I have time to haunt torrent sites. I very often find music that interests me by investigating word-of-mouth recs. I work my ass off. Real people who happen to be talented musicians work their asses off. I respect the hell out of that, and will support it. Artisans who are Real, who engage a community, impress me (Trent being only one example, and I'm not talking just musicians). And I'm loyal as they come. Impress me and I'm yours. It's not the here today -- gone tomorrow fan that should (IMO) be the goal for an upcoming band wishing to make an impact of breadth and longevity - it's the fan who will stick around, who won't wander off and get lost between releases. You unfold a map and choose a route based on where you want to go. Figure out your goal and choose your route - Trent just handed you the map. Kudos, man.
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07/09/09 6:51 AM
Rayne member Joined: 11/26/07 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 9	CyDs84 posted: Even if you can deal with the fact that you would be making little or no money a person might still want certain legal rights to their work or some kind of way to prove it's their work. I know that technically something belongs to you when you create it, but I'm not sure if the 'mailing proof to yourself' trick really holds up legally, or any of the cheaper methods to protect it. It's really just about having credit for what you do. What would be the least expensive way to legally protect it? That trick should work legally. Your work is copyrighted the moment you create it, no formalities needed. However, under US law proof of a registration is necessary when engaging in a lawsuit. Copyright needs to be reformed drastically. Now only publishers, assocations like the RIAA etc. benefit financially from copyright.
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07/09/09 7:00 AM
saimagery member Joined: 11/24/07 Posts: 214	Thanks for the info, good to have it deciphered clearly. I have a question that you might be able to help with... My 'project' is a solo project, but utilising guitars, bass, drums, the usual 'rock band' setup. Unfortunately, getting the musicians in the town I live in is rather hard. I understand I could move to a bigger city, make contacts and such, but I'm not looking to be the next big thing, nor even the next Pitchfork wet dream (is there much of a difference these days between those two?) My question is, how did you go about forming your live band in the early days? Were they mates of yours, or was it an arrangement formed with help from management/record labels? The majority of my friends either don't play an instrument, or those that do aren't into this style (hardcore kids, which for full disclosure, I'm also in a mathcore band that was originally a Cut Copy ripoff band, but that's a long story). The kids I know that are interested in this style of music are either a) jerk hipsters or b) lazy stoners. I'm not hoping to have you solve my problems like Jesus or something, but I'd be keen to see how you did it when you started. Would you see a dude playing a Squire strat with heaps of distortion pedals and reverb on full playing along to a Powerbook? It'd be good, I promise.
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07/09/09 7:05 AM
stevehenningsgard member Joined: 03/13/09 Location: Minneapolis%2C MN Posts: 2	Agreed on all counts, but you forgot "Make music you love, for the sake of making music for yourself". Assuming you're going the broke route, that is.
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07/09/09 7:10 AM
dreamerm member Joined: 03/15/09 Location: Somewhere in California Posts: 763	Green_Hare posted: Hello, first post here. Hope everyone will be OK to me as my motives and observations are quite different than usual. Though I do like NIN,I can't say that I'm an avid listener, the reason I started following Mr. Reznor on Twitter was my being interested in this, for me unusual, approach to fans. Mainly because I run a website about a REALLY famous musician whose PR people and record company are doing NOTHING to communicate with people interestested.... Wow Green Hare. That's one doozy of a first post. Thanks for that. If this person is as high-profile as you say they are, then I don't think internet-illiteracy is leaving them destitute. Their fortunes and reputation are probably secure. But it is a shame there's a thriving community of fans that this person doesn't seem to have the knowledge or the will to engage with. Hey, this person may be technically inept, but at least they're not suing their fans. Remember when Metallica did that? Their online support never recovered. It truly is amazing how awful some of these official sites are. I'm a huge Rage Against the Machine fan and their official website is laughable. No news. No exclusives. No interaction, and the (moderator-less) forum page is a cess-pit of militant conspiracy-heads and trolls. I'm certain RATM is not the BEST example of this, but oh well. But Metallica and RATM still sell $90 tickets by the truck-load. Maybe they are past the point in their careers where they need the internet. These guys could never make another dime on anything else they do and still have enough in the bank to keep them in private jets and presidential suites for the rest of their lives. But obsolescence is painful to see, especially from someone who's contributed hugely to music and culture in the past.
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07/09/09 7:17 AM
CyDs84 member Joined: 11/26/08 Location: Georgia USA Posts: 72	Rayne posted: CyDs84 posted: Even if you can deal with the fact that you would be making little or no money a person might still want certain legal rights to their work or some kind of way to prove it's their work. I know that technically something belongs to you when you create it, but I'm not sure if the 'mailing proof to yourself' trick really holds up legally, or any of the cheaper methods to protect it. It's really just about having credit for what you do. What would be the least expensive way to legally protect it? That trick should work legally. Your work is copyrighted the moment you create it, no formalities needed. However, under US law proof of a registration is necessary when engaging in a lawsuit. Copyright needs to be reformed drastically. Now only publishers, assocations like the RIAA etc. benefit financially from copyright. It sounds like the legal protection will fail without the registration, period. As far as making music because you enjoy it. That's why you should do it, but can you imagine the Hell of writing a great song, and some mainstream guy can out resource you legally, steals it, and takes it further to make it stupid? Couldn't I get a defamation of character lawsuit in there at least tracing the song back to me?
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07/09/09 7:21 AM
smockaveli78 member Joined: 03/09/08 Location: Boston Posts: 13	wow, you really didn't have to take the time (especially during a tour) to write all of that to us, yet you did. You're a great human being Trent. Thanks for that. I'm very tempted to follow that advice. I have the music and the resources of making it sound good, but becoming a performer isn't where my heart is. I'm currently embarking on going to college for the first time in my life (I spent 9 years in the military) to get a degree in studio recording. I'd love to hear your advice on that route if you have any. Take care TR, and I hope that I get to see you in the future NYC dates!
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07/09/09 7:25 AM
vladdrak member Joined: 05/11/08 Posts: 1	Trent- This is sound advice. The best thing anyone can do is forget the old business models. But you touch briefly on a point I think you could perhaps delve deeper into. You bring up Myspace which for me is a bit similar to what is happening in the independent film world i.e. - any idiot can pick up a video camera now and claim they are a filmmaker. Anyone can post music. Anyone can create videos. Anyone can report the news (bloggers, citizen journalists, etc). Anyone can create music (via garageband or whatever else). All of this is a result of the web and technology. It over saturates the market. I got off Myspace long ago when it quickly became flooded with 'bullshit'. And quite frankly, it becomes ridiculous with all the requests to 'listen to my band, man'. You get to the point where you don't want to hear any of it. And I imagine a lot of people feel the same way. So where do you go to find new music? I'm speaking as a listener. You mention places where you should and can present your music but honestly -- as a listener it's like searching for a needle in a haystack. I imagine with time, it will only become more difficult to find anything worth listening to. Again, look at what's become of Myspace. Not that it was ever any real venue but it's now over run by spam and bullshit. You reach a point where as a listener, you stop looking. When someone sends you a link to their band, you delete it. I just feel like the new media model is expanding beyond what you're talking about in your post. I think the indie film world can offer some clues. 15 - 20 years ago, Sundance film festival was a venue for NEW and truly INDIE voices. Look at who came out of there: Quentin Tarantino, Robert Rodriquez, Paul Thomas Anderson, Wes Anderson and many more... This is no longer the case. Sundance films are million dollar plus films and they are usually made by actor-turned-directors with all their famous buddies cast in various roles. There is a SLIM to NONE chance of any emerging talent to screen a film there. Sundance has spawned so many film festivals that it is actually a joke now. The over saturation creates a climate where NONE of the festivals really mean anything. And again, EVERYONE is a director now because lets face it -- you can buy an HD camera for 200 bucks and edit a film on your laptop. Any idiot can make 'music'. Now maybe you're thinking quality will stick out and override the bullshit that is out there. But think about all this from the listeners perspective. Are you really going to scour the web for hours at a time looking for something worthwhile? You might have yesterday, but as more and more bullshit appears it will become less the case. This over saturation makes it nearly impossible for any 'quality' music to ever see the light of day. Maybe I'm being far too pessimistic. But I think this is something to think about for anyone trying to reach an audience. Viral marketing may be the key. But it has to go beyond what is happening right now. My apologies for the lengthy post. ~g
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07/09/09 7:29 AM
batman_sandwich member Joined: 08/15/08 Posts: 297	Tip: Put your own music up on torrent sites.
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07/09/09 7:32 AM
oneironautilus member Joined: 04/07/09 Posts: 3	Those of you wanting to play shows, but don't have a band, just do it. I've been going on stage by myself with a guitar and an iMac for 2 years now, and slowly my fanbase is building, and I get booked for more shows all the time. I even had the opportunity to open for one of my most influential bands (vast.) Eventually people will come to you wanting to be involved in what you're doing. It's reaaaaally tough being a one man act, doing all the music, performance, website/social sites, artwork, I even fold and glue each one of my CD slip cases by myself, but if it's worth doing to you, and you really want to do it, you'll find a way. Don't let lack of a band discourage you from making music. I'm still experimenting with methods of online delivery. One thing I'm trying in a couple of weeks is a split EP. If you have multiple acts teaming up to push one record, then you have alot more resources behind it getting the word out. here I be
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07/09/09 7:32 AM
dreamerm member Joined: 03/15/09 Location: Somewhere in California Posts: 763	Here's the thing though: Record companies, ideally, DO have a function beyond just promotion and distribution. Their methods of promotion and distribution are obsolete now, but Record companies had other functions too. Like providing a skint musician with the money to actually MAKE an album. Home-software is more powerful now then it was, but if you want to upgrade to something professional, it's going to cost you, The STRINGS the labels attached to this production budget was completely unfair: you have to pay them back all the money and then THEY own the album. The strings are inexcusable, BUT, there's still something to be said for there being money available to a young artist who's done tinkering around in Garage Band and wants to upgrade their sound. Mostly (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) the best thing a record company did was send their acts out on tour. In my opinion this is the biggest loss resulting from the Record industry's death. They didn't help matters when they decided MTV and the Radio Outlets they controlled were a good-enough substitute for touring. They're wrong, and this is why so few of the musical acts who've broken since then have displayed much staying-power. Even the GOOD ACTS have been having a hard time turning their hit singles into the kind of enduring, supportive fanbase that bands like REM (and NiN for that matter) have put so much work into building. You hear a song somewhere, you might like it or not, but the right performances can make people fans for life. Nowadays, if a young band wants to tour, they gotta pay for it themselves, which really limits how far they can go and how long.
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07/09/09 7:38 AM
batman_sandwich member Joined: 08/15/08 Posts: 297	Also its important to remember that there can be freak cases of success. Look at Burial. No shows played, no musical training, only his talent making waves we all dream we could make. Not smart to wait for it to happen, but nice to keep in the back of your mind.
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07/09/09 7:39 AM
Stereoaxis member Joined: 04/12/08 Posts: 3	Glad to finally see this covered, and it's been a big help. To further the discussion, what advice can you give on viral marketing to someone on a more limited budget? Take the Year Zero game for example. I have friends in film school, so getting some decent looking videos done is not a problem (and if you don't , hey, approach a film school, a lot of times they're happy to work on projects cheaply or even pro bono for the experience), and I can design and build websites, but from there, what's the best way to implement a plan like that? Is it enough just to get friends to post and view these videos and start spreading the hype or is there a way to get it out there quicker and more efficiently?
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07/09/09 7:41 AM
tjmilian member Joined: 11/27/07 Posts: 2	all excellent ideas, trent. as someone who has been writing and recording music for 14 years, i appreciate the time and energy you give not only to make amazing music but also to inspire and educate artists trying to do the same. i gave up on the idea of achieving riches and fame through music a long time ago. fame looks like more trouble than it's worth, and there are plenty of other ways to make money. i do believe in art and that you have to put yourself out there to a certain extent to create something meaningful. i'm now in the process of recording my first solo album, the beginning. it is the first in a series of albums telling the story of my life and dreams. i haven't decided on the actual release strategy yet, and your suggestions here are helpful. i have set a date and city for the record release party and debut live concert: 2/10/2010 in miami. trent_reznor posted: offer a variety of premium packages for sale and make them limited editions / scarce goods. Base the price and amount available on what you think you can sell. Make the packages special - make them by hand, sign them, make them unique, make them something YOU would want to have as a fan. Make a premium download available that includes high-resolution versions (for sale at a reasonable price) and include the download as something immediately available with any physical purchase. Sell T-shirts. Sell buttons, posters... whatever. i'm all about this concept. i released an experimental electronic album [one hand tied behind my back] last year as a limited edition box set. there was only one copy. i put it up on ebay as a special, handmade edition with different options, including the opportunity to play a private concert for the auction winner. i included everything i could think of that a fan might want and then some. my previous music releases have never been offered for sale. for years we've been hiding our music all over the world for people to find randomly. you can't buy it. you have to find it. this may not be the ideal way to release your music to the world, but it's fun for us. that reminds me, that nin google earth treasure hunt action last year was super fun for the fans! again, thanks for the insight.
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07/09/09 7:41 AM
tasteslikebubblegum member Joined: 05/23/09 Location: Toronto Posts: 1	Ironically, one of the best documentaries I ever saw on how major record labels fuck an artist over is Hanson's "Strong Enough To Break," which can be watched in segments on YouTube. It doesn't matter whether you like Hanson's music or not -- that's really incidental. Bottom line is, this doc is a must-see for anyone who's interested in breaking into the music industry or who thinks being "big" guarantees any kind of cooperation from those who control the industry. In a nutshell: Hanson made one great pop album (Middle of Nowhere) then switched to their bluesier roots, leaving pop in the dust. They were literally tortured by their record label (Island/DefJam) and an A&R guy who kept insisting none of their new songs were good enough. Bottom line: Hanson left Island/DefJam (including the promotional machine that came with it, the $$ to push an album, etc) and went completely independent. They have their hardcore fans who support them, buy their albums, go to their concerts, buy their merch and the guys are able to make a comfortable living on their own terms. Definitely worth watching to see just how sadistic a record company can be when they're convinced one of their acts isn't going to deliver a money-making single that will justify spending a dime on promoting the album as a whole. Again, it's irrelevent if you like Hanson's music or not: the doc itself is an eye-opener. (Kind of off-topic, I guess, but the original post reminded me of it)
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07/09/09 7:43 AM
drummachine1986 member Joined: 09/06/08 Location: Bratislava%2FPrievidza - Posts: 42	trent_reznor posted: (disclaimer) This was written on a bumpy Euro-bus ride across the wilderness - may ramble a bit but I think the point gets across. TR I posted a message on Twitter yesterday stating I thought The Beastie Boys and TopSpin Media "got it right" regarding how to sell music in this day and age. Here's a link to their store: [illcommunication.beastieboys.com] Shortly thereafter, I got some responses from people stating the usual "yeah, if you're an established artist - what if you're just trying to get heard?" argument. In an interview I did recently this topic came up and I'll reiterate what I said here. If you are an unknown / lesser-known artist trying to get noticed / established: * Establish your goals. What are you trying to do / accomplish? If you are looking for mainstream super-success (think Lady GaGa, Coldplay, U2, Justin Timberlake) - your best bet in my opinion is to look at major labels and prepare to share all revenue streams / creative control / music ownership. To reach that kind of critical mass these days your need old-school marketing muscle and that only comes from major labels. Good luck with that one. If you're forging your own path, read on. * Forget thinking you are going to make any real money from record sales. Make your record cheaply (but great) and GIVE IT AWAY. As an artist you want as many people as possible to hear your work. Word of mouth is the only true marketing that matters. To clarify: Parter with a TopSpin or similar or build your own website, but what you NEED to do is this - give your music away as high-quality DRM-free MP3s. Collect people's email info in exchange (which means having the infrastructure to do so) and start building your database of potential customers. Then, offer a variety of premium packages for sale and make them limited editions / scarce goods. Base the price and amount available on what you think you can sell. Make the packages special - make them by hand, sign them, make them unique, make them something YOU would want to have as a fan. Make a premium download available that includes high-resolution versions (for sale at a reasonable price) and include the download as something immediately available with any physical purchase. Sell T-shirts. Sell buttons, posters... whatever. Don't have a TopSpin as a partner? Use Amazon for your transactions and fulfillment. [www.amazon.com] Use TuneCore to get your music everywhere. [www.tunecore.com] Have a realistic idea of what you can expect to make from these and budget your recording appropriately. The point is this: music IS free whether you want to believe that or not. Every piece of music you can think of is available free right now a click away. This is a fact - it sucks as the musician BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT IS (for now). So... have the public get what they want FROM YOU instead of a torrent site and garner good will in the process (plus build your database). The Beastie Boys' site offers everything you could possibly want in the formats you would want it in - available right from them, right now. The prices they are charging are more than you should be charging - they are established and you are not. Think this through. The database you are amassing should not be abused, but used to inform people that are interested in what you do when you have something going on - like a few shows, or a tour, or a new record, or a webcast, etc. Have your MySpace page, but get a site outside MySpace - it's dying and reads as cheap / generic. Remove all Flash from your website. Remove all stupid intros and load-times. MAKE IT SIMPLE TO NAVIGATE AND EASY TO FIND AND HEAR MUSIC (but don't autoplay). Constantly update your site with content - pictures, blogs, whatever. Give people a reason to return to your site all the time. Put up a bulletin board and start a community. Engage your fans (with caution!) Make cheap videos. Film yourself talking. Play shows. Make interesting things. Get a Twitter account. Be interesting. Be real. Submit your music to blogs that may be interested. NEVER CHASE TRENDS. Utilize the multitude of tools available to you for very little cost of any - Flickr / YouTube / Vimeo / SoundCloud / Twitter etc. If you don't know anything about new media or how people communicate these days, none of this will work. The role of an independent musician these days requires a mastery of first hand use of these tools. If you don't get it - find someone who does to do this for you. If you are waiting around for the phone to ring or that A & R guy to show up at your gig - good luck, you're going to be waiting a while. Hope this helps, and I'll scour responses for intelligent comments I can respond to. TR TopSpin Media info: [topspinmedia.com] and what do you think about an offer from the agency, that they will put us on the compilation of rock bands but they want to control the rights to use the songs. do you think it is a good idea? or we should asses what we would gain and lose and then decide?
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07/09/09 7:43 AM
ryanve member Joined: 07/09/09 Location: NJ USA Posts: 1	Right on Trent. Freeing music is the way to go, and collecting the email is a great point. Here's why: http://live-music-blog.com/independent-music-distribution-the-next-level-2/ -Ryan from The Spin Arounds
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07/09/09 7:47 AM
mploed member Joined: 09/03/08 Location: Nuremberg - Germany Posts: 133	I think that there are some really good points in your post, Trent. However I got the impression that you valued all the digital distribution / marketing parts higher than actually playing live. In my opinion playing many many many shows is the first and foremost basis for making a band successful. I am aware that this collides with many small artists that need to work besides their band in order to be able to pay their bills. But playing live is not all, people need to be attrackted to shows and that is the point where many of your ideas kick in. Actually I think that there are many chances in the current situation of the "market". Those chances are not only for artists but also for many entrepreneurs that build platforms such as topspin. There are quite a few interesting business ideas where I personally see many chances at a manageable risk for non musicians as well. In my opinion many lessons can be learned from the pretty much DIY oriented Hardcore / Punk(rock) scene. I just wonder why they didn't come up with digital solutions yet.... Maybe I should code a DIY music distribution app for underground bands on the amazon / google cloud .... should not be too hard from a plain technical point of view ;-)
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07/09/09 7:48 AM
JoeHMusic member Joined: 07/09/09 Posts: 1	Hi Trent, Firstly, immensely looking forward to next Wednesday when I see the band perform in London, don't know how you'll react to the O2 Arena really - it's a fantastic venue in terms of the atmosphere but there's something to queasy and corporate about the place it makes me quite uneasy! Anyways I'm sort of drifting off here... The real reason I'm replying is to pretty much align myself with what you've been saying about how to get the music out there - i'm currently in the process of forming and growing a band, and with the ridicilous pace of change that's occuring in the music industry right now it's bloody hard to work out what the best way forward is, but from what I've experienced as both artist and consumer recently makes me believe that no artist that even veers towards alternative music is going to get anywhere just trying to sell records (more's the pity for me as I've always liked owning physical CDs, feels a lot more permanent than just a set of codes on your PC). It seems now as well that a lot more impotus is going to be placed on live music, because Hell no-one's going to bother following you as a band if you can't do what you record well live right? As a result we seem to be hearing more and more about artists signing to bodies like LiveNation than the old record companies of the past (whether that's good or bad is a matter of opinion really - I personally like it in theory but right now with LiveNation / Ticketmaster practically monopolising the live music industry the practice is far from ideal). But what happens if you want to fight against it, do you try and find a compromise between the owners of the venue and the band to get a better deal for your fans? Or do you start performing 'guerilla' gigs, get rid of the third party and organise your own gigs, but at the risk of being unprofessional and possibly being illegal at the same time? It's a lot of food for thought really, wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on this side of the industry Trent! Anyways I'd better get on with the day job, I'll see you guys next week! Joe H
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07/09/09 7:50 AM
jetstorm member Joined: 04/15/09 Posts: 1	I'd be curious to hear what Trent has to say about breaking into the music industry as a non-performer/ artist, anyone else curious?
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07/09/09 7:51 AM
erice1031 member Joined: 03/26/09 Posts: 3	Trent, Here is a tool that musicians can use to update all social media websites from one location. [www.artistdata.com] Check it out, i'd like to know what you think about it. We started using it recently and it seems like something that fits right in with this post. Thanks. This is from the Artist Data "about us" page.. ArtistData tirelessly works to give musicians more time to be creative. We're building solutions to automate the monotonous updating of artist websites, social network profiles, concert databases, Twitter, official news feeds, iCal, local press, fan newsletters, and even tour books. When an artist updates our site, we update all their sites. Our current users save hundreds of hours, giving them more time to do what they love: create music.
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07/09/09 7:52 AM
gargoylegurl member Can you guess where I am? Joined: 08/21/08 Location: Fort Liquordale%2C FL Posts: 56	Trent taking the time and effort to go through the mind-boggling music industry protocols for up and coming musicians...and the marketing process is so very vital for newbies to the industry, which he touched upon as well. Just another reason why I love this man! It's like sharing a well-kept family recipe...and he does it, for his fans. There is so much integrity in what he has to say, it's hard to imagine a world with no more NIN.
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07/09/09 7:57 AM
dreamerm member Joined: 03/15/09 Location: Somewhere in California Posts: 763	drummachine1986 posted: and what do you think about an offer from the agency, that they will put us on the compilation of rock bands but they want to control the rights to use the songs. do you think it is a good idea? or we should asses what we would gain and lose and then decide? They want the rights to all your songs, or just the one on the compilation? You get paid? Royalties? Do you get the rights back after a certain time? Would letting them have the rights to this song mean you wouldn't get to put it on your OWN album? How much exposure would this mean to you?
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07/09/09 8:00 AM
NoIdeaforaName member Joined: 09/13/08 Location: http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube. Posts: 46	willpower101 posted: Nice follow up Trent. I was looking at the beastie boys site last night and wondering... besides the online sales and premium content how is 16 bucks for a set of flacs that people can find online worth it? Yes, for new bands I feel that you should give away as much as you can. (i had a hell of a time initially talking to by bandmates about this model a couple months ago, lol. but we're solid on it now) Allow me to offer some solid new media marketing advice, as this is my forte. You do indeed have the power to market yourself at a level that can nip at the heels of the big boys. No you won't have the funding behind you, but the internet is such a magnificent tool for quick information propagation. If a person can use search engine optimization to get their site on the front page or google, or 4chan can use the power of the masses to pull pranks on the net, you can use the same forces to promote yourself! Here are some of our ideas: 1. Create a web site. This is simple and done in minutes. Put a player on there and give average bitrate copies away for free. 2. Social Media. Create a myspace page, a facebook page, a twitter account, and upload your music in video form to youtube. Dump it all out there as soon as you get it since you should be creating new songs constantly anyway. (we usually have more ideas that we can work on at once and record them quickly to come back to later.) 3. Give away your music at shows! I'm serious! We considered prospectively giving away as many copies as possible at shows but it will just get expensive. Here's the idea to tackle it. -go to a shop and have say 50 to 100 cd's duplicated. Just decent copy's you recorded in garage band or pro tools. A nice rule of thumb is no less than 10% of the crowd. Sign them all, and set them on a table during the show. Announce the table. -have a computer there with the mp3's on it, advertise in your flyers that you will transfer the songs to people's mp3 players, iphods, or phones! Announce during the show to stick around if they want it done this way. Nice and personal. (will need third party help eventually) -Give people a way to order a mastered version. Let them sign up to a list and/or make sure they know they can order one online. If they like the music, they can place an order online for a full cd with sleeve, artwork, and pro-level disc. 4. Viral marketing! This is my favorite! Leave cd's with question marks in permanent marker on them laying around with your music on them. Leave usb thumbdrives in restaurants that say open me. (256 meg ones are soooo cheap in bulk) Get as creative as possible to make the fans feel like they've found you. -You don't even have to put track names or the band name! Crazy? not quite. The people who like you will wonder who the hell this band is!? So they'll google you! If you have your lyrics submitted to lyric sites, as well as on your own site, and your site is properly search optimized they will "find" you. (even though you brought them right to you) That kind of feeling of accomplishment with discovering a band leaves a lasting impression, and word of mouth spreads quickly that way! That's all for now, just wanted to quickly add some ideas to this. Trent Reznor has yet again got it right in the new age of media. You also may wonder why i would tell you these ideas? (which some of you will inevitably thing are stupid, and that's ok) Because nothing is sacred. No idea can be kept a secret for long. And someone, somewhere, is always having a similar idea. Better to share it and just hope you follow through better than the rest. Jonathan Taufer jonathantaufer.com revizzle.com willpower101.com Find me on twitter/myspace/facebook/google i like the 4th part heh yep
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07/09/09 8:02 AM
devclasof2012rox member Joined: 12/27/08 Location: Cape Coral%2C FL Posts: 82	Question. Is it a good idea as an independent artist that wants to stay that way to release singles to FM radio stations?
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07/09/09 8:02 AM
NoIdeaforaName member Joined: 09/13/08 Location: http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube. Posts: 46	perchee posted: urbanwilliams posted: Should bands find a booking agent? Is it a good idea to go digital (like Line 6 pods) instead of having cabs onstage? Is a major label deal a good idea if you're offered one? a- if they can afford booking agent, yes. If no, it's on themselves and/or their friends. b- i still dream of using Line 6 if i ever happen to go on stage as an actual musician. My bet would be yes. c- It's good if you're ok with whatever they have to offer you (and not just you offer them). It also means you may get fucked after some time. a-c i say yea
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07/09/09 8:04 AM
NoIdeaforaName member Joined: 09/13/08 Location: http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube. Posts: 46	yea man, nothing new learnd as the princip exposed here, as the process yep agree thx
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07/09/09 8:05 AM
elizawhat member Joined: 04/28/09 Location: Waterbury%2C CT Posts: 10	JohnnyRayVega posted: Coming from one of the most successful people in the music industry right now, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to print this out and tape it up on the wall in your studio, office, wherever. Very excellent advice and applies and goes so much farther than just music now. Very generous of you to share this as well. Thank you good sir. Hitting that print button right now. This advice can be applied to anything, really. Thank you Trent, for sharing your thoughts. You have never ceased to amaze me with your generosity and wisdom. You have my utmost respect!
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07/09/09 8:07 AM
truthfilms member Joined: 11/11/08 Location: NYC Posts: 1	vladdrak posted: Trent- This is sound advice. The best thing anyone can do is forget the old business models. But you touch briefly on a point I think you could perhaps delve deeper into. You bring up Myspace which for me is a bit similar to what is happening in the independent film world i.e. - any idiot can pick up a video camera now and claim they are a filmmaker. Anyone can post music. Anyone can create videos. Anyone can report the news (bloggers, citizen journalists, etc). Anyone can create music (via garageband or whatever else). All of this is a result of the web and technology. It over saturates the market. I got off Myspace long ago when it quickly became flooded with 'bullshit'. And quite frankly, it becomes ridiculous with all the requests to 'listen to my band, man'. You get to the point where you don't want to hear any of it. And I imagine a lot of people feel the same way. So where do you go to find new music? I'm speaking as a listener. You mention places where you should and can present your music but honestly -- as a listener it's like searching for a needle in a haystack. I imagine with time, it will only become more difficult to find anything worth listening to. Again, look at what's become of Myspace. Not that it was ever any real venue but it's now over run by spam and bullshit. You reach a point where as a listener, you stop looking. When someone sends you a link to their band, you delete it. I just feel like the new media model is expanding beyond what you're talking about in your post. I think the indie film world can offer some clues. 15 - 20 years ago, Sundance film festival was a venue for NEW and truly INDIE voices. Look at who came out of there: Quentin Tarantino, Robert Rodriquez, Paul Thomas Anderson, Wes Anderson and many more... This is no longer the case. Sundance films are million dollar plus films and they are usually made by actor-turned-directors with all their famous buddies cast in various roles. There is a SLIM to NONE chance of any emerging talent to screen a film there. Sundance has spawned so many film festivals that it is actually a joke now. The over saturation creates a climate where NONE of the festivals really mean anything. And again, EVERYONE is a director now because lets face it -- you can buy an HD camera for 200 bucks and edit a film on your laptop. Any idiot can make 'music'. Now maybe you're thinking quality will stick out and override the bullshit that is out there. But think about all this from the listeners perspective. Are you really going to scour the web for hours at a time looking for something worthwhile? You might have yesterday, but as more and more bullshit appears it will become less the case. This over saturation makes it nearly impossible for any 'quality' music to ever see the light of day. Maybe I'm being far too pessimistic. But I think this is something to think about for anyone trying to reach an audience. Viral marketing may be the key. But it has to go beyond what is happening right now. My apologies for the lengthy post. ~g as far as scouring the web on the listeners/revievers end i think this misses the point - people organically find what they like and trent is right word of mouth from a trusting voice -whatever blogs you already like or your friends whos opinions on music you actually understand--is better than any eminem poster campaign if you want to be an artist who markets their music outside the mass appeal. As far as making films with a truly "indie" voice- whatever that means, i reccomend making something short and great-- its much easier to convince someone to take 3-8 minutes of their time to watch something you made than a mediocre at best feature-- the people you named from the early nineties all became powerful filmmakers through somewhat traditional means-whether it was festival circuit which i agree is mostly dead but has little breaths of life everynow and then-- see Once, the irish musical-- or whether they just had connections in the old industry like wes and pt the andersons. I reccomend looking to who you admire and what they are doing now as the climate changes--copolla always has an interesting film voice-tetro, youth without youth, or lumet-- the oldest of traditionals turning tradition on its ear with before the devil knows your dead It still harkens back to Mr Reznor's original point which is to creat content as inexpensively as possible then move from there-- quality is available and the cream will rise to the top--vimeo was mentioned youtube was not- ultimately good ideas tend to grow roots and fruit a la google a company that is barely ten years old. So once you have great content on the cheap now what? -- again Mr. Reznor answers this-the current climate of modern tech tools is constantly evolving so dont wait for myspace or facebook to fail and then get frustrated take advantage now-with tact-who are the voices in these worlds that have integrity? who do you admire that work within them? answer these questions and you will be thinking about how you can positively take advantage of your environment to better your art and get more people to hear or see it which after you have defined your goals should ultimately be the point- you cant be buried with your bently. I know this is a lot of me repeating what has been said but its weird to see the answers right there but perspective from such an angle that you cant see them. I hope this is viewed as a positive contribution to the discussion.
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07/09/09 8:16 AM
dmusolf member Joined: 07/09/09 Posts: 1	Every band should embrace all the tools possible to communicate directly with their fans. Another awesome tool is Bandbox, which is free for bands to drop on their MySpace page or on a blog or fan forum. Plus, you get to keep all the scratch. Moose
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