This describes exactly what Killola is doing:

Killola Website

P.S. I am a fan of theirs, not a member of the band hyping their own shit.

trent_reznor posted:

Have your MySpace page, but get a site outside MySpace - it's dying and reads as cheap / generic.

Trent,

Thanks for the informative posts and the Digg interview you did a while back. You say that myspace is dying, but what do you think about Facebook? Facebook has gained popularity recently and bands are now moving over to it. The main problem I see is that if you're not an established act and dont have 1,000 fans you cant get a vanity url like facebook.com/nin.

I feel that this is a bad move on Facebook's part when it comes to bands/companies. It will discourage them and/or let other's take the vanity url that they'd want.

I had an idea for a site that would help those bands/companies with getting the 1,000 fans but I hit a small snag. That would be getting enough people to see the site in order for it to gain enough popularity so that a band can be listed on the site and then get 1,000 fans in a week or so.

So, I started a site called fvbhelp.org in hopes of trying to help the small guy get the fans for them to get their vanity url. It's not pretty, and it's not meant to be. Ive tried to prepare the site to be as stripped down as possible so that if it got into a twitter trending topic, or someone tweeted about it and had a ton of people getting to the site that it wouldn't bog down and be unaccessable.

Do you think something like this is a worthwhile venture to help bands/companies out or do you think that people don't care enough to help bands/companies? I don't expect to gain any $ from this. Just helping someone out is good enough payment for me.


Christopher

fvbhelp.org


PS, Thanks for the great hospitality you gave to those of us who were lucky enough to meet you in person at the Phoenix NIN/JA show. Yourself, Justin, and Robin were so extremely nice to us and will be something that none of us will forget.

Valuable words. I would just like to clarify that researching the approach of established artists is key; specifically, relative to genre ( i.e. jazz, classical etc.).

Although I think that general marketing is common to all genres, it's the research that will allow you to hone and present the appropriate attitude to successfully connect with your market/fans.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Trent.

I'm not a musician, I'm simply a fan who's addicted to music, so I had to read your letter and everything you say is absolutely the right way to do it (again, I'm saying this from the fan perspective).

And remember, guys, when you get some recognition, don't forget about your fans or let your egos take you away. Staying close is the way to do it, nobody likes a Lars Ulrich (to give a small example), only thing is, he probably doesn't care because he has enough money and fame to act like he does.

seanmoney posted:

thanks for the link erice1031 --"Here is a tool that musicians can use to update all social media websites from one location.www.artistdata.com"

No problem, glad you find it useful. Thanks for yours as well.

Good thread!

jetstorm posted:

I'd be curious to hear what Trent has to say about breaking into the music industry as a non-performer/ artist, anyone else curious?

I'm a potter and a writer; I'm not planning on breaking into the music industry.


What are you asking, here? How technicians get positions on shows and tours? Caterers? Wardrobe designers? Graphics artists/type-setters? WHAT?

I agree with you post sir, and being i have been trying to do music for the last 28 years and find myself at the twilight of being too old or outdated for any major label consideration i have followed your recent succes and what i would call ground breaking distrabution of Ghosts and The Slip ..

i was in a band in the bay area when i say NIN at the warfield for during the beggining of the downward spiral tour..it was this show that help renew my faith in live performance...at this show you threw you mike stand into the head of your drummer thus stoping the show for about 30 plus min. only to come back out on stage and kick into the set again..it was amazing and awe inspiring to see your love and dedictaion for the craft and art of performance.

although it is bittersweet to see you putting to rest the mantle of NIN i hope you still will give out little words of wisdom and still continue the ground breaking work you have started with selling music online and i hope you continue to expanded on that idea, watching other artist follow in your footsteps proves it is the next logical step for the already established artist.

but look what you did for Saul Williams...introducing his music to so many of us who may have not ever givin that awesome album a listen if not for the push you gave it via your website and other media outlets.

a interesting story i was at this hick bar in Nashville,TN. watching a friends band play , i was wearing my NIN wave goodbye tour shirt from the atlanta nin/ja tour date a random nascar lover comes up and comments how brillent Trent is for offering Ghosts for sale on the internet with out label backing and how you made a million dollars off it..The amazing thing i got out of this is how this simple yet daring idea had broke the threw too middle america..it wasnt you normal NIN fan or even a fan of that music genre but it was a nascar loving, bud light drinking, red blooded southern man...so i think you deserve alot of credit for launching and maybe spearheading this new frontier..sure many independent acts may have dabbled in it for years before, but for a major act with your resume it made a novel idea legit...and proved profitable... just think if evey independent or average garage band could make a quarter or half that what a wonderful world it would be filled with new sounds and ideas and art..

why im here i would like to add thank you for the years of hard work and dealing with the bullshit...i know it is not always a easy thing standing by why people tear your ideas and art apart...So here is too the next chapter...which im sure your already writing..just as we had to say goodbye to drunk jamez in metallica and welcome new (i love you jamez) and we had to say goodbye to cutting edge manson for cartoon manson(but we still love him) and we had to witness the end of ministry ...im sure it will hurt alittle more missing the angry and morbid trent...but im happy you found love and im happy you are going out the way you want to ... say hello to finch for me..

long live NIN and Many happy years ahead for Mr. Reznor....

This is exactly what i'm doing with my solo project/band. (Common Man Down) I'm in the process of building a simple, easy-to-navigate website with free downloads of music. Everyones telling me to sell my album yet I just feel like giving it away simply will put out more of a response and build up a fan base. I've been handing them out to people all over the state to give out free demos and so far it has been successful. I'll randomly get emails from people that become fans or randomly hear my music at clubs. I've even collected together a mailing list from people at shows and via myspace to send out updates and free downloads.

However, I do believe their is a psychological aspect to this. I believe if I professionally package the album, shrink wrap, barcoded, etc. and people spend money to have it, the value of it increases in their mind. The psychology of paying for something gets your hopes up and in the end result, they may take your music more seriously rather than just tossing your demo in the back seat of the car. However, I do agree with Trent's opinion and reasonings on what to do in this current market and time of transition. Its been difficult for artists to get their music out there, heard, and to properly survive with some sort of an income to keep doing what you're doing in certain genre's of music.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2009 08:49AM by JordanEspionage.

Wow dude, this is so reassuring. Literally TWO DAYS ago my band launched our album in a way VERY similar to what you said (although we didn't COMPLETELY eliminate flash!)

This gets me stoked to think that we are going in the right direction, and because I am a shameless asshole, if any of you guys wanna check it out its at [thesearelights.com] .

We put a cover of "Gave Up" on the album...is that cool with you TR?

This is good advice for musicians and other entities as well. I'm a communications director at a community college outside of Philadelphia, and for the past year, I've been using tools like twitter, you-tube, facebook and Flickr to promote events and to brag about student work. The days of slick, glossy marketing pieces are a thing of the past. Now it's about accessible information without having to navigate through clutter. I especially love working with our film and music students to promote their work on you-tube!

Thanks for taking the time to help out unknown artists!

I've also listened to what you said in your Digg interview and I think they are pretty insightful not only for music industry, but also for up-to-date marketing strategies in general. I work in advertising and and here also the main problem is; it becomes more and more difficult for people to adapt to the speed of advancing technology; so they choose to romanticize the old ways and stay in harsh denial instead of evolving. So, the fittest will survive in all chances. I couldn't agree more. Plus, the internet is the most closest thing to an equal world simulation, why not embrace it and use it in the best way possible for the sake of the band? Only then the tangibles would make profit, like merch, CD's and etc.

Thank you very much TR. It might have been info I knew already, but it still is good to have an update/refresher course, and a place for people to get some info.

However, though I have not read through the replies, I did NOT see you (TR) mention anything about signing up for ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC. These organizations (if not already mentioned here) help you guys collect royalities for your music being played. Anywhere (more or less, anyway), and if you do go through a label, this will make sure that the writers of the song get whatever payment deserved (think it's at about 11.4 cents, per song, per album sold, and that gets split between all the writers). ASCAP, the most popular one, costs 25 dollars, and you don't have to renew it, however, you need to have something you wrote recorded, played at an live, though I'm not sure on if it was supposed to be registered with them or not (and you get paid when it's performed, too, whether you're playing it or not, if I'm correct).

Also, Trent failed to mention this as well. Nothing is more visible than, well, being visible. Make yourself known locally, have a whole bunch of friends do street work, like handing out copies at concerts, stickers, flyers, et cetera. Yes, the 'net is the best place to be spread because it's the widest, but you have to account for all the other bands, musicians, artist and what-have-you being thrown into the mix. It's now not just bands from your area you're competing against for attention, you're against everybody. Do lots of shows, and though that A&R rep might not be there, the (potential) fans will be. There's a group that I just recently met, called Shinobi Ninja, and they've been playing their hearts out, working for that break. They opened for Street Sweeper Social Club (opening act for NIN/JA, Tom Morello's new band for those not in the know) on the 16th, and though I might have missed them play, a lot of people said they did great. They would not have gotten to play that show if they weren't doing things right, so kudos to them, and since I name-dropped, please check them out.

Not to make this sound hopeless, but you really need to stand out from the rest somehow. Though nothing can beat a nice clean site, however, it this day and age of high-speed connections, I really doubt load times will be a problem. Once again, I could be wrong in that, because I still know one person who had 56k last year.

Also, while you're looking around for people to work with, get their email address and stay in touch. You may never know what position in the future might come up, and if you can help someone out with a spot, you start creating a network. However, this does entail knowing people who are good at what they do, their schedule, and willingness to take on other projects, but in such you create a real network of musicians, as opposed to one formed via MySpace, Facebook, et cetera, it's way more personal than those, and they leave a better mark on people. Though I don't want to say it, but the music industry is still politics in a sense, due to the needed networking and reaching out, whether you're putting together a band or putting your music out.

I do apologize for ranting, but I'm at work, and I can't stand the finer points of my job. Remember, you're doing this more to HAVE FUN, and ENJOY it, and if you make money, that's icing on the cake. Please remember that, more so than anything.

With all that being said, I do have questions to ask you, Trent:

What if you're just a songwriter/lyricist, and not looking to play right now? Do you have any suggestions on taming that beast? Or actually, do you know anyone in need of such services (Don't say Jonathan Davis, hahah), and is willing to try someone new?

Thanks for sharing your wisdom Trent. That was awesome.
*should get back into playing flute....*

Trent, THANK YOU! This is FANTASTIC advice!

There is an artist by the name of Julia Nunes out there right now. She plays Ukelele and guitar and sings. She started doing this only a couple of years ago and was at Bonnaroo this year and has opened for Ben Folds, as well as doing a small tour of some pubs and bars in the UK. She may not be your cup of tea musically, but she has totally used the available avenues to get her music out there and be heard! She makes her own well-produced, multi-track YouTube videos covering other artist's songs and singing some of her own. She has 2 self-produced CD's available on her website as well.

[www.youtube.com]
[www.junumusic.com]

It makes me wish these types of things were available to me when I was just out of HS and wishing I could start a band. If I could have done this type of thing on my own, in my own home, and get an audience of people, rather than hitting the pavement and trying to get local gigs in bars and clubs in upstate NY (a musical DEAD ZONE!), I would have been MUCH more confident about actually TRYING to pursue that path in my life.

So for you doubters out there, check out the above sites! She has made her own way, so far, very successfully!

Trent - you ROCK!!!

Trent,
When I read your post I took note, because this is really what I'm hoping to do for my band. We are coming to the point where we realise we need to give our music away, and as much as that pains us, because we could really use an income in order to fund gigging. It seems like it is, perhaps, the only way to get our music out there and start building enough interest to eventually make a livelihood from what we're doing.

Both me and my band mate have younger sisters around the ages of 17 who have NEVER paid for music in their lives and they aren't phased by it. I love new technology, I love access to free music, I think subscription services are the way to go, but it really saddens me that music has been so devalued.

I start Berklee College of Music in the Fall. I've taken out loans to the tune of 42,000.00 to pay for my first semester there. I hope to study music production & engineering and hone my performance skills. To become a musician, certainly isn't cheap. To maintain a musical life requires a lot of funds. I have a family, a little boy, just 3, and somehow I have to eek out a living for him after I finish school. I could have gone the minimum wage job route and pushed music through the cracks, but I long to have a fulfilling job and I feel like music is the only answer for me.

I know we'll figure out a way to make the music industry work again. And challenges like this only breathe new life into what we're all doing. I have tried to make use of advice from all the talented and working musicians I have met along my journey. I owe a lot to JMJ, actually, for being such an amazing resource over the past year.

Thanks for taking the time to share your ideas with us. Your experiences lend weight to your views.

Meliss
www.myspace.com/abitcagey