Well, since Trent pokes his head in every once and a while to check out what the fans are saying, and since I guess this is the right thread to do it in, I'm going to leave the following message for him - whether he reads it or not:


Trent,


I can easily say that NIN is my favorite musical project, ever. I've listen to every album, seen videos from every tour and have found shelter in your songs when I am going through hard times. Not only have you entertained, but you have inspired and influenced my own music that I am creating now in my spare time, which is of Electronic and Industrial genre.

When I heard you were one of the major names on the list boycotting my state because of SB1070, I was disgusted. I, and I presume a vast amount of the fans, didn't devote their love to NIN because of your political views. That's not what I come here for, Trent. It doesn't bother me when it's just a little "Close GITMO" or "GLOBAL ZERO" banner ad, but this is just absurd, and frankly, it actually is discrimination against your AZ fans.

Guess what, Trent? I'm 17 years old. I didn't vote on that bill, and while I have read it at AZleg.gov, I could care less about politics to have a detailed opinion on it. Politics was always something I hated, and music was an escape. Now, I guess that's not an option for escape anymore. Go ahead Trent. Support a boycott that solves absolutely nothing and only adds to the tension. Me and my friends really wanted to see HTDA since we didn't get to see a Wave Goodbye or LITS show, but we probably have to go to CA to do that now.

I used to think you were one of the true remaining voices Trent. I used to believe you always went with logic, and believed in music, not fights over politics. Now I don't know what to believe.

You're playing Ruiner here Trent. Please, don't do this.


-Rod (a fan)

rodheh posted:

Well, since Trent pokes his head in every once and a while to check out what the fans are saying, and since I guess this is the right thread to do it in, I'm going to leave the following message for him - whether he reads it or not:


Trent,


I can easily say that NIN is my favorite musical project, ever. I've listen to every album, seen videos from every tour and have found shelter in your songs when I am going through hard times. Not only have you entertained, but you have inspired and influenced my own music that I am creating now in my spare time, which is of Electronic and Industrial genre.

When I heard you were one of the major names on the list boycotting my state because of SB1070, I was disgusted. I, and I presume a vast amount of the fans, didn't devote their love to NIN because of your political views. That's not what I come here for, Trent. It doesn't bother me when it's just a little "Close GITMO" or "GLOBAL ZERO" banner ad, but this is just absurd, and frankly, it actually is discrimination against your AZ fans.

Guess what, Trent? I'm 17 years old. I didn't vote on that bill, and while I have read it at AZleg.gov, I could care less about politics to have a detailed opinion on it. Politics was always something I hated, and music was an escape. Now, I guess that's not an option for escape anymore. Go ahead Trent. Support a boycott that solves absolutely nothing and only adds to the tension. Me and my friends really wanted to see HTDA since we didn't get to see a Wave Goodbye or LITS show, but we probably have to go to CA to do that now.

I used to think you were one of the true remaining voices Trent. I used to believe you always went with logic, and believed in music, not fights over politics. Now I don't know what to believe.

You're playing Ruiner here Trent. Please, don't do this.


-Rod (a fan)

I co-sign...
Couldn't have said it any better *Applause*

jayetheartist posted:

I find it ironic that this thread is filled with complaints that such a boycott won't do anything, when it's obviously catching the attention of a whole lot of people. Given that there are a lot of other states considering laws similar to the one Arizona passed (mine included) it would seem that bringing this to the attention of a lot of people and getting a dialog going is exactly the kind of effect a boycott like this wants to achieve. I find it sad, though, that instead of a discussion of the law itself, mostly what has appeared here is "Fuck the politics, I just want Trent to entertain me and shut up about what he thinks."

As an artist myself, I'm extremely offended by the belief that artists are supposed to keep their opinions to themselves and just appease their audience, like they're puppets for our entertainment. Trent's opinions aren't any more or less valid than anyone else's, but by the same token he has no less right to express and act on his opinions than anyone else.

Furthermore, the sudden uproar over the fact that NIN has joined the boycott is bewildering. NIN is not touring anymore, so the fact that the list of boycotting acts now includes NIN is no more than a political statement on Trent's part. Nothing has actually changed. And HTDA isn't an any more valid argument at this point, since it's been stated that any touring they may do is at least a year away. So, basically, all this crying and gnashing of teeth over losing the potential to see concerts that were never going to exist anyway is pointless.

Isn't a boycott's purpose to get something to change? All this makes me want to do is vote to keep it this way for longer, I'm not going those who play dirty what they want.

It's a dick move, and do you expect this to change before next year? Clearly, the citizens voted this law in, and they probably won't be voting it out. If it's still the same way, HTDA won't play here. I'm not mad about the opinion of the artist, I'm mad at the way they are expressing it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 10:42AM by rodheh.

jayetheartist posted:

rodheh posted:

jayetheartist posted:

I find it ironic that this thread is filled with complaints that such a boycott won't do anything, when it's obviously catching the attention of a whole lot of people. Given that there are a lot of other states considering laws similar to the one Arizona passed (mine included) it would seem that bringing this to the attention of a lot of people and getting a dialog going is exactly the kind of effect a boycott like this wants to achieve. I find it sad, though, that instead of a discussion of the law itself, mostly what has appeared here is "Fuck the politics, I just want Trent to entertain me and shut up about what he thinks."

As an artist myself, I'm extremely offended by the belief that artists are supposed to keep their opinions to themselves and just appease their audience, like they're puppets for our entertainment. Trent's opinions aren't any more or less valid than anyone else's, but by the same token he has no less right to express and act on his opinions than anyone else.

Furthermore, the sudden uproar over the fact that NIN has joined the boycott is bewildering. NIN is not touring anymore, so the fact that the list of boycotting acts now includes NIN is no more than a political statement on Trent's part. Nothing has actually changed. And HTDA isn't an any more valid argument at this point, since it's been stated that any touring they may do is at least a year away. So, basically, all this crying and gnashing of teeth over losing the potential to see concerts that were never going to exist anyway is pointless.

Isn't a boycott's purpose to get something to change? All this makes me want to do is vote to keep it this way for longer, I'm not going those who play dirty what they want.

It's a dick move, and do you expect this to change before next year? Clearly, the citizens voted this law in, and they probably won't be voting it out. If it's still the same way, HTDA won't play here. I'm not mad about the opinion of the artist, I'm mad at the way they are expressing it.

I'm guessing you wouldn't be upset at all if the boycott affected some other state, though, right?

Of course I would. I have lived in other places, you know. I can put my mindset into the one of someone else. To be boycotted against for governmental issues in any place, anywhere, for any reason is wrong and I am opposed to it.

gonzo84 posted:

Once again, we're mostly stating that Trent and the rest of the Bands are Entertainers, not Political Activists...

And there's the problem. They have every right to be political activists.

jayetheartist posted:

gonzo84 posted:

Once again, we're mostly stating that Trent and the rest of the Bands are Entertainers, not Political Activists...

And there's the problem. They have every right to be political activists.

And they have every right to be political activists who have in essence said "since your state's government and a selection of your citizens aren't in accordance with our political opinions, we aren't going to perform there because of it".


And I have every right to put all my NIN merchandise in the garbage disposal. I don't want to though, because I support Trent. I don't support him supporting artists as a whole discriminating against us though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 11:19AM by rodheh.

gonzo84 posted:

Dude, it's like mixing Sex and Religion, they just don't well together...
They do have every right to be Political Activists, but when it gets in the way of their main job, which is Music, then that's a problem...shit, look at Bono. You still haven't even made a point with how this is benefiting anything at all...You can bring up revenue which isn't anything, cause I've given you enough proof that it doesn't do anything for our state, especially since the bands that do come here play at small little theaters for $20 a pop. This is supposed to be a stand or a statement made by these bands, but it's not like it'll change the minds of the AZ Gov Officials, so I guess these bands will never come here huh? Then when everybody else starts passing their bills, then these artists will start boycotting their states and then they won't have anywhere to go....yeah, this is wonderful idea huh? Pfffttt

A boycott attempts to do several things. First of all, it does remove more than the $20 per ticket from the state's economy. As I pointed out earlier, concerts generate tax revenue in a lot of ways beyond the money directly spent on the show. They involve a lot of people working and traveling, a lot of merchandise of all kinds being bought and sold, etc. Cancel one or two shows and it's not that much. Cancel a couple dozen, and there's an impact. Nobody expects any politician to suddenly change their mind because tax revenues dip a little, and it might be "playing dirty," but the point is to make a statement by withholding something important. It's the same principle as an individual not shopping at a particular store because they don't like the way the store is run, only this is on a larger scale. Plus, it's not as if musicians are the only group talking about boycotting Arizona. It's part of a larger movement. Whether it actually makes enough economic impact to cause anyone in government to rethink their stance has yet to be seen, but it certainly is a good way of calling attention to the issue.

Which brings us to the second point. It's supposed to get the attention of people both in and outside the state. How many people in Arizona are eligible to vote but aren't registered or don't show up to the polls? And how many of the eligible-but-not-involved people are likely to be in attendance at concerts? The point of any protest is to get the attention of others who are likely to share your view and get them to take action. Furthermore, there are other states considering similar laws, and this kind of media attention is intended to get the attention of eligible voters in those states too, to prompt action to prevent such laws from being passed elsewhere.

On a side note, sex and modern mainstream religions might not mix well, but sex and religion in general have mixed quite well for as long as there has been religion. It all depends on the religion.

rodheh posted:

And I have every right to put all my NIN merchandise in the garbage disposal.

Yeah, you do, although I'm not sure exactly what good that would do for anyone. But whatever. Knock yourself out.

jayetheartist posted:

gonzo84 posted:

Dude, it's like mixing Sex and Religion, they just don't well together...
They do have every right to be Political Activists, but when it gets in the way of their main job, which is Music, then that's a problem...shit, look at Bono. You still haven't even made a point with how this is benefiting anything at all...You can bring up revenue which isn't anything, cause I've given you enough proof that it doesn't do anything for our state, especially since the bands that do come here play at small little theaters for $20 a pop. This is supposed to be a stand or a statement made by these bands, but it's not like it'll change the minds of the AZ Gov Officials, so I guess these bands will never come here huh? Then when everybody else starts passing their bills, then these artists will start boycotting their states and then they won't have anywhere to go....yeah, this is wonderful idea huh? Pfffttt

A boycott attempts to do several things. First of all, it does remove more than the $20 per ticket from the state's economy. As I pointed out earlier, concerts generate tax revenue in a lot of ways beyond the money directly spent on the show. They involve a lot of people working and traveling, a lot of merchandise of all kinds being bought and sold, etc. Cancel one or two shows and it's not that much. Cancel a couple dozen, and there's an impact. Nobody expects any politician to suddenly change their mind because tax revenues dip a little, and it might be "playing dirty," but the point is to make a statement by withholding something important. It's the same principle as an individual not shopping at a particular store because they don't like the way the store is run, only this is on a larger scale. Plus, it's not as if musicians are the only group talking about boycotting Arizona. It's part of a larger movement. Whether it actually makes enough economic impact to cause anyone in government to rethink their stance has yet to be seen, but it certainly is a good way of calling attention to the issue.

Which brings us to the second point. It's supposed to get the attention of people both in and outside the state. How many people in Arizona are eligible to vote but aren't registered or don't show up to the polls? And how many of the eligible-but-not-involved people are likely to be in attendance at concerts? The point of any protest is to get the attention of others who are likely to share your view and get them to take action. Furthermore, there are other states considering similar laws, and this kind of media attention is intended to get the attention of eligible voters in those states too, to prompt action to prevent such laws from being passed elsewhere.

On a side note, sex and modern mainstream religions might not mix well, but sex and religion in general have mixed quite well for as long as there has been religion. It all depends on the religion.

rodheh posted:

And I have every right to put all my NIN merchandise in the garbage disposal.

Yeah, you do, although I'm not sure exactly what good that would do for anyone. But whatever. Knock yourself out.

You obviously missed the point. I don't intend to do that.


Secondly, we get it. You are opposed to the law and support the boycott. You, once again, have missed the point and jumped straight to politics.


Jaye, just let me know, where is it that you live? I've already stated that I believe bullshit is bullshit wherever you are, but it's stupid to argue against human nature and say that you don't feel it harder when it's you that is being targeted.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 12:19PM by rodheh.

PeedroPaula posted:

South Africa was boycotted by musicians, multinational corporations, the governments of other countries and ordinary individuals who chose not to do business with or travel to a country that discriminated against the majority of its citizens. What happened? Apartheid ended, Nelson Mandela was freed from prison after 20+ years and elected President, and millions of people were granted the rights they should have had all along. I'm not necessarily saying that the illegal immigrants in Arizona or anywhere else should be granted the same rights as American citizens, but BOYCOTTS WORK!

This isn't going to work unless they decide to overthrow the AZ legislature using force. The key words you missed on this one were "multinational corporations and governments of other countries" (aka rest of the god damn world). This method of a boycott against a state as a whole for this specific reason ("illegal" immigrants, by the way.) is bullshit from a completely non-political view, in my opinion.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 12:06PM by rodheh.

gonzo84 posted:

Dude, it's like mixing Sex and Religion, they just don't well together...
They do have every right to be Political Activists, but when it gets in the way of their main job, which is Music, then that's a problem...shit, look at Bono. You still haven't even made a point with how this is benefiting anything at all...You can bring up revenue which isn't anything, cause I've given you enough proof that it doesn't do anything for our state, especially since the bands that do come here play at small little theaters for $20 a pop. This is supposed to be a stand or a statement made by these bands, but it's not like it'll change the minds of the AZ Gov Officials, so I guess these bands will never come here huh? Then when everybody else starts passing their bills, then these artists will start boycotting their states and then they won't have anywhere to go....yeah, this is wonderful idea huh? Pfffttt

You've spouted a lot of nonsense over the past few pages, and rather than going back and replying point by ridiculous point, I'm saving myself the agony by berating you in one fell swoop:

1- "Entertainer" and "Political Activist" are not mutually exclusive terms. As "activist" is not an occupation, one may be both.

2- It is awfully pretentious for you to dictate what these artists should or should not do with their time, their money, and their lives. You can respect their right to make their down decisions by supporting them, or by boycotting them in return.

3- On the contrary, you've provided no proof whatsoever concerts do not benefit the State of Arizona monetarily. Even if your scenario of bands playing bars with $20 covers were true - which it isn't; big acts do not play bars unless they choose to - tax revenue would still be taken from ticket sales, concessions, merchandise sales, the gasoline needed to fuel the band's tour bus and big rigs, and parking. Now, bearing mind the large crowds moving back and forth from the 'burbs to the venue, you can factor revenue gathered from gas sales to the fans, and from the issuance of traffic citations. Also, with any kind of large event, there is an increased police presence around the venue. This would actually lend to Arizona's profiling policy being enforced, which is more of a reason not to play in Arizona if you are opposed to the bill.

4- Illegal immigration is a nation-wide problem. If you think Arizonans are the only people who feel the effects, then you are sadly mistaken. Why is it all the illegals would flood into Arizona? Because of the ample job market? Arizona is just a fucking way-station to illegal immigrants, the spot where they cross the border. From there they disperse. Every major city in this country has illegal immigrants in significant quantities, so don't pull that "this doesn't effect you" bullshit. It isn't even remotely factual.

5- Even if the aforementioned clause were factual, it wouldn't validate your argument by virtue of its own existence. One doesn't need to live in Arizona to understand illegal immigration or hold an informed opinion on the matter. Stupid people use that line of logic when otherwise incapable of forming cogent arguments.

6- Last but not least, you are whining. With all the suffering in this world - shit, in this country - and you're complaining about not being able to attend concerts in your home state? Just listening to such petulance makes me feel like I'm going to puke blood.

Arizona has an estimated 250,000 illegal immigrants while California - where I live - has over 2,000,000. Do you think we're not impacted by this issue? Arizona: 1 illegal immigrant per 20 residents; Calfiornia: 1 illegal immigrant per 16 residents.

As for whining about the lack of musical acts visiting Arizona, you're an adult and nobody's forcing you to live in Arizona. Feel free to join us in Los Angeles where you can see just about anyone you want.

gonzo84 posted:

they are turning their backs on the fans and that's what pisses me off, not the "going to a show" or "making a point" about this ridiculous bill, it's the leaving us dry and left to fend for ourselves when it's not even in our control

How is this NOT whining?

pretty YZ to boycott a state that tries to uphold the rule of law.
certainly that law that does not for one conflict with the constitution
why boycott a state like that ?
racial profiling ?
hey trent why not leave the US for racial and political profiling people all over the world then ?
why target a state that has a border which is denied proper security from the federal government ? illegal immigrants are illegal because it breaks a rule which has a purpose.
why boycott a state that tries not to become your dreaded YZ kinda place by keeping to the constitution and rule of law ?

[www.azleg.gov]

read the MF-er and think again what you are doing.
for all i care you love obama, and well if there is any one out there who is to be banned and boycotted it is that guy for being a corporatist globalist who wants to go to that cedocore place you fear.

you are really one weird guy, boycott AZ if you think it is best, but you deny your fans there for some political reason, if you want to be political, be like that, but please be informed and not stupid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 01:15PM by sui.

I just made an account on this Forum just to make a post about the boycott I also posted this message for Maroon 5. I am an Arizonian, and in the Guard, the issue is so key to this state, that we may be placed on the border and taken away from our daily lives, college, work, family, its our job and we will all go with pride, however, for some band to go and stick its nose and have the nerve to "boycott" our state over an issue it knows nothing about. I've lived in this state all my life I see it first hand. To target people economically during hard times is beyond me.

All in all, I'm deleting all your music from my Itunes, and doing so for everyone in my family, NIN and Maroon 5 Will not be mentioned in my household or by any of my friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 02:05PM by angry0arizonian.

Why is everyone's knickers in a twist? I see this as him doing a favour for a very political friend. They're not touring anyway, and notice how it was specifically NIN and not HTDA - perhaps for a reason?

Anyway come on guys, Trent dropped out of college so didn't get to do the whole political / demonstrations thing others do when he was a student so he has to get it out of his system now



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2010 02:48PM by WorzelG.