Problems with Social Network BD

Problems with Social Network BD

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11/02/10 7:51 PM
paul_guyet member Hibiscus Oblong Joined: 11/27/07 Location: LIC%2C NY Posts: 79	This isn't related to nin.com per se, but I'm not sure where to post this. If there's a better place, please move it. Anyway, I received my TSN BD and popped it into my PS3. Long story short, the 5.1 mix isn't working. I'm only getting the mix in my front left and right speakers. I called Sony (makers of the PS3 and the receiver) and they said it was most likely a problem with the coding of the disc. I'm waiting to hear back from Audiolife, but wanted to see if anyone here had had the same problem.
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11/03/10 8:54 AM
Zerep member Joined: 11/25/07 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 13	On ETS posted: I received the Blu-ray and CD copies of the soundtrack today, but one thing has me worried. I popped in the Blu-ray to listen to the 5.1 surround mix, and my audio receiver scrolls PCM 48 across the display when both the 5.1 and stereo mix are played. Also, my receiver usually has a blue light on the display that lights up when decoding multi-channel signal and without fail it always lights up when listening to With Teeth or The Downward Spiral 5.1 mixes or other surround sound discs. It does not light up when playing either mix on the BD. It doesn't even display the three rear-channels as being used. Has anyone else noticed this with their set-up? Could something have gone wrong in manufacturing? I can't seem to discern a difference in the two mixes on the BD besides loudness. In a way, I'm glad it's not just me.
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11/03/10 11:27 AM
paul_guyet member Hibiscus Oblong Joined: 11/27/07 Location: LIC%2C NY Posts: 79	That is, literally, EXACTLY what happens to mine. It's like the three speakers just shut off when this disc is in. Have you heard anything about this from anyone else?
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11/03/10 12:11 PM
Zerep member Joined: 11/25/07 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 13	One other person on ETS replied to my post stating they had similar issues. Assuming that poster is not you, that makes three of us so far that I know of. I think we haven't heard more from the rest of the community because of the shipping delays. I'm thinking of tweeting Rob so he can check on this, and perhaps give us more info on the technical requirements for playback. All I know is I don't have any issues with my other BDs with uncompressed HD 5.1 audio or 7.1 mixes. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2010 12:12PM by Zerep.
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11/03/10 12:31 PM
paul_guyet member Hibiscus Oblong Joined: 11/27/07 Location: LIC%2C NY Posts: 79	I only posted here. And yeah, I have no problems with anything else either. Still waiting to hear back from Audiolife. What are you using for your BD player and receiver? I have a newer PS3 and a Sony HT-DDW670 which is older (2003 or so) but, like I said, works fine with everything else I put on it.
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11/03/10 1:32 PM
Alex79uk member Joined: 09/30/10 Location: Redditch%2C UK. Posts: 28	Same problem here, guys. Very disappointing. When you hit 'display' on the PS3 BluRay remote, it brings up the details of the audio, and that DOES state it's a 5.1 mix. It lists it as 'Linear PCM 5.1ch 96KHz 13.8 Mpbs'. However, like the other posters in this thread, all I get is a two channel mix whether I click on stereo or 5.1 on the BluRay disc. I don't know if it's because the 5.1 mix has been encoded to a format the PS3 does not support. I think Linear PCM 5.1 is a really high end format which very few players or receivers actually support. If this IS the case, and it's not just an error, then everyone is shit out of luck. Would it REALLY have been too much hassle to just include a DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1 mix? Three mouse clicks, surely? I'm pretty pissed off about this myself, but it looks like Trent just decided to do the 5.1 mix in a format that very few people can actually access. Poor show. Either way, silly encoding or faulty discs, I'm pretty damn annoyed about it. I could have saved $12 and just bought the CD version for what it's worth. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2010 01:33PM by Alex79uk.
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11/03/10 2:02 PM
tucka member Joined: 09/22/08 Location: Walsall%2C UK Posts: 11	surely if you are at least getting the front channels then it means your player can actually decode the audio. On a side note I haven't got a 5.1 system here as I am at uni so won't be able to properly try it out properly until Christmas but when I played it through my TV speakers today I quickly switched to the 5.1 version and it sounded as if a large proportion of the mix was missing. Usually if I play a surround track through my speakers all 6 channels are transmitted through the 2 speakers
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11/03/10 2:58 PM
Zerep member Joined: 11/25/07 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 13	paul_guyet posted: What are you using for your BD player and receiver? I have a newer PS3 and a Sony HT-DDW670 which is older (2003 or so) but, like I said, works fine with everything else I put on it. I'm using a stand-alone Sony Blu-ray player S350, and I can't remember the model number for my audio receiver but it is a Sony as well. They are connected by digital optic cable capable of streaming TrueHD, DTS HD and Dolby Digital Plus audio. I usually have two indicators when playing back BDs. A white one on the Blu-ray player indicating it is recognizing a BD and not DVD, and a blue light on my receiver whenever anything 5.1 or DTS is being played back. The white light turns on my player, but not the receiver.
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11/03/10 4:54 PM
Alex79uk member Joined: 09/30/10 Location: Redditch%2C UK. Posts: 28	tucka posted: surely if you are at least getting the front channels then it means your player can actually decode the audio. Yeah good point. Personally, my main set up is a PS3 and a Sony receiver from 2008. I can't be bothered looking up the exact model number, but it was pretty expensive and plays everything else I can throw at it absolutely fine. So it seems there is definitely something wrong with the mix / discs. I just want to know what we can do about it. It's really not practical for me to post a disc back to the US from the UK, send it recorded to make sure they get it, then wait for a replacement - if indeed any of them work properly. Would cost me like $15 or so for all that. Not happy though, something needs to be done about this.
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11/03/10 6:14 PM
SwimFin Joined: 11/24/07 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,903	I don't have the disk yet to check it myself, but it is lpcm 5.1 audio, correct? According to multiple websites that I've checked, you must use an HDMI connection to get the 5.1 mix; optical or coaxial connections will downmix it to stereo. Is anyone using HDMI?
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11/03/10 8:08 PM
acurtis member Joined: 03/22/08 Posts: 5	Just got mine, popped it into my standalone Panasonic BD35 and no 5.1! I am NOT using HDMI out for audio. Edited Nov 4/10: I am NOT using HDMI out to my receiver. My HDMI is going out to the TV only for video with the audio going out over digital optical to the receiver. Apologies. Aaron Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2010 08:03AM by acurtis.
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11/03/10 9:59 PM
paul_guyet member Hibiscus Oblong Joined: 11/27/07 Location: LIC%2C NY Posts: 79	Okay, I called Audiolife and talked to Anna (I've been in touch with her a few times about the delay on the BD). She said I was the first person to report this particular problem, but that these things do happen (she told me one person received their BD with no disc inside) and they're sending me another BD. I recommend we all get in touch with them about the problem to let them know it isn't that isolated of an incident and maybe they can do something about it. If I get the second disc and it STILL doesn't work, I guess that's on me and my equipment, but hopefully this new disc will solve the problem. Audiolife: (818) 455-4340 ext. 235 Have your order number ready and remember they run on Pacific time. Alex79uk posted: I don't know if it's because the 5.1 mix has been encoded to a format the PS3 does not support. I think Linear PCM 5.1 is a really high end format which very few players or receivers actually support. If this IS the case, and it's not just an error, then everyone is shit out of luck. I hope this isn't the case. I know Trent's big on high end stuff, but he's never been exclusionary about it.
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11/03/10 10:00 PM
rob_sheridan This is my custom title. Joined: 11/15/07 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 184	Hey everyone. I got wind of people having problems with this, and triple-checked my retail copy of the Blu-ray to make sure it was working for me. I'm getting 5.1 output on both my surround systems - one a PS3 and one a standalone Blu-ray player. So I don't think it's a problem with the disc (at least not all of them). It is very weird though that some of you who regularly play 5.1 Blu-rays are having problems with this specific disc. I sent this thread to the people who authored/manufactured the Blu-ray for us to see if they might have any insight into what this issue is - I'll let you know.
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11/03/10 10:19 PM
paul_guyet member Hibiscus Oblong Joined: 11/27/07 Location: LIC%2C NY Posts: 79	Thanks for taking the helm, Rob.
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11/03/10 10:44 PM
Zerep member Joined: 11/25/07 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 13	Thank you, Rob. I hope this is a simple, slightly isolated issue. I've no doubt it will be appropriately resolved! Again, I take some comfort knowing the member using an HDMI output is having issues as well. Can't say updating my surround system just for one Blu-ray is in my budget!
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11/03/10 11:26 PM
paul_guyet member Hibiscus Oblong Joined: 11/27/07 Location: LIC%2C NY Posts: 79	Unless it's The Fragile in 5.1
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11/04/10 6:14 AM
Alex79uk member Joined: 09/30/10 Location: Redditch%2C UK. Posts: 28	Hmm, I'm outputting the audio from my PS3 via Optical which downmixes to stereo, yeah. I tried with HDMI though, and still no joy. I just think it's a shame Trent couldn't have included a standard DTS or DD mix on the disc, which everyone would have been able to use. Oh well, I guess we'll have to wait for a fan project like Ghosts 5.1 then.
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11/04/10 8:01 AM
acurtis member Joined: 03/22/08 Posts: 5	Hello again, I must apologize I am NOT using HDMI out to my receiver as I have posted. I am using digital optical out to my receiver for the audio, but the video is going HDMI out to my TV. I will re-edit my post with the appropriate information. Nonetheless the 5.1 should still work. I just emailed Customer Service (CustomerService@Audiolife.com) to see if they know of any fixes with this. Aaron
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11/04/10 8:11 AM
acurtis member Joined: 03/22/08 Posts: 5	Hi, Doing some research on my Panasonic BD35 and finding information that states Linear PCM 5.1 only over HDMI, not optical out. So that could very well be my problem. Might be time to buy a new AVR so I can run HDMI out from my BD player. I guess it would be nice though to make sure without having to send me another disc. Aaron.
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11/04/10 11:02 AM
paul_guyet member Hibiscus Oblong Joined: 11/27/07 Location: LIC%2C NY Posts: 79	Never mind. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 01:41AM by paul_guyet.
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11/04/10 11:24 AM
blassster member Joined: 01/27/08 Posts: 13	I think you have to make sure the audio output setting on your BD player is on "LPCM" rather than "Bitstream". You may have had HD audio work before, but it might have been in DTS-MA or TrueHD format and sent to your receiver to be decoded. LPCM audio needs to be sent over raw as far as I'm aware, and I agree that I think I've seen that only certain receivers are able to recognize the raw LPCM format. Check your BD player manuals for where to find this switch from bitstream to LPCM output. I don't have the disc yet, so I can't test this right now. Extra stuff: -Optical connections don't have enough bandwidth for HD audio in 5.1 surround, as mentioned in other posts above. -The LPCM setting is when the BD player decodes the audio and sends it uncompressed, from DTS-MA or TrueHD, in LPCM format. -The Bitstream setting is when the BD player keeps the HD audio encoded in the DTS-MA or TrueHD format and sends it over the HDMI cable as-is, allowing the receiver to decode it rather than the player. Please correct me if I am wrong, I'm distracted because I'm in a pretty noisy place. Just trying to help explain the HD audio for those who might not be aware of how these formats work, hopefully for some cases the simple setting for the output format will fix this.
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11/04/10 12:22 PM
nealen member Joined: 03/17/08 Posts: 2	@blassster thanks for the tip. i'm using a ps3 with optical out and setting "bd audio output format (optical digital)" to "bitstream (mix)" did the job! ( it was previously set to "bitstream (direct)" ) EDIT: the BD Optical Output Audio setting is located in the VIDEO settings on the Playstation 3. Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2010 03:59PM by nealen.
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11/04/10 12:53 PM
blassster member Joined: 01/27/08 Posts: 13	Cool. I haven't booted (let alone updated) my PS3 in a while, so the "mix" and "direct" setting are foreign to me. It may be an addition with the latest version of the firmware, or something different with the slim ones. It must be compressing it down though, to be sent as 5.1 when using optical. Either way, glad that it works with some tinkering... Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2010 12:53PM by blassster.
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11/04/10 2:34 PM
Alex79uk member Joined: 09/30/10 Location: Redditch%2C UK. Posts: 28	nealen posted: @blassster thanks for the tip. i'm using a ps3 with optical out and setting "bd audio output format (optical digital)" to "bitstream (mix)" did the job! ( it was previously set to "bitstream (direct)" ) Can you explain exactly where this setting is? I can't seem to find it on my PS3. I'm outputting using Optical like you, but I can't get it to 5.1 no matter what I do! Thanks EDIT : Hmm, ok, it's in VIDEO SETTINGS on the PS3. Near the bottom. BD Audio Optical Out setting or something. I changed mine from Direct to Mix, and it does indeed 'work'. It does then output the audio in 5.1. My receiver lists it as DTS 3/2.1. The reason I say 'work', is because I'm not convinced it's really the true intended 5.1 audio, more just a post processing remix done by the hardware the disc is being played on. I might as well just hit the Dolby ProLogic II button on my receiver. Still, it's still a great album... Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2010 02:42PM by Alex79uk.
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11/04/10 2:55 PM
rob_sheridan This is my custom title. Joined: 11/15/07 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 184	It seems like Blassster's tip is the key to this problem. Our guys from authoring/manufacturing checked it out and came to the same conclusion. Unfortunately it's going to be a bit different for everyone depending on their setup. HDMI and a receiver that supports LPCM audio is going to be the best combination, but I'm sure there will be ways to get it working with other setups. Keep posting your findings and maybe we can come up with some tips depending on peoples' setups. EDIT: Here's a thread the authoring folks found that might be helpful: [www.avsforum.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2010 03:03PM by rob_sheridan.
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11/04/10 3:04 PM
Alex79uk member Joined: 09/30/10 Location: Redditch%2C UK. Posts: 28	Cheers for taking an interest, Rob. Maybe the original poster could edit his post to include the various fixes? The definite fix for the PS3 anyway is to change the BD Optical Output Audio from 'Bitstream (Direct)' to 'Bitstream (Mix)' in the VIDEO settings on the Playstation 3.
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11/04/10 4:04 PM
nealen member Joined: 03/17/08 Posts: 2	@Alex79uk i've edited my original post so that readers find the setting in the VIDEO menu. sorry for not adding that earlier. as for the quality, yes, i assume that bitstream (mix) is a "lesser" version compared to bitstream (direct), but i think it's far superior to stereo. i'm enjoying it tremendously!
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11/04/10 10:22 PM
paul_guyet member Hibiscus Oblong Joined: 11/27/07 Location: LIC%2C NY Posts: 79	BOO YAH! Switching to Bitstream (mix) worked like a charm. Thanks guys.
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11/05/10 5:42 PM
blassster member Joined: 01/27/08 Posts: 13	Got it today. Another claim from my end for 5.1 working over HDMI with LPCM set as my output format (PS3). God damn this sounds good. Ideally this would have had a DTS-MA track (includes regular DTS in its core) as an option for greater compatibility. An aside: Does this involve the creators having to pay licensing fees for distributing works using DTS-MA or TrueHD compression tech?
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11/06/10 10:01 AM
jeff0702 member BelieveTheLie Joined: 11/27/07 Posts: 2	I'm trying to play this on a Sony BDP-S360 bluray player going to a Yamaha HTR-5835 reciever via coax digital audio cable(my receiver does not have an HDMI input unfortunately). I've tried several combinations of different settings and no luck. We can't all afford to be on the cutting edge of technology constantly. I agree with other posters, a Dolby Digital and/or DTS 5.1 mix is undoubtedly what most of us were expecting...truly disappointing.
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