trent_reznor posted:

I have business in the real world to attend to including wrapping up the live version of NIN, DOING some cool new shit and spending as much time as possible with the most amazing woman in the world.

In other words, DOING SHIT THAT TRULY MATTERS AND IS MEANINGFUL. So fucking glad to see you backing away from the toxic sewage that is "social networking"..or anonymous human behavior, however you want to decode it. It was obviously making you miserable and quite frankly it's the last fucking thing you need right now. SO FUCKING GLAD TO READ THIS. Best wishes to you and Mariqueen. So SO awesome. Seriously. WOO!!

dori_doreau posted:

leo3375 posted:

pragmatica posted:

romeo_void posted:

i've read some of the ideas, like vouching system, real names, communal trust, etc., and i'm all for this. anything to cut down on these degenerate trolls who only exist to make others as angry and miserable as they are.

*Ideas and suggestions that could improve this site and all social-networking sites*

This. Seriously. And sites like Twitter, FaceBook, MySpace, etc. should include harassment and trolling as violations of their Terms of Use. If a user is reported for harassing another user, the site admins should look into it and take whatever action is appropriate, up to and including an IP ban.

sending the account names of twitter users who mostly tweet threats, racist and sexist crap towards certain persons (which is spam) to [twitter.com] via DM can result in their accounts closed. but there should be an easy way to report users who think harassment is fun.

Don't most of these people make new accounts tho? Good points tho. Obama is passing a Cybercrime law, which I saw when I watched that special that Brian Williams did..maybe this will help and get rid of the filth that is online. Harassing people online should have the same consequences as harassing people IRL. Same with making death threats. It is not policed enough

Trent, we as true real life fans have always respected your opinion, appreciate everything you do for us, and have your back. I like the idea of the forums for valid true blue people instead of dick-wads on twitter spewing hate, rumors and nonsense. Its amazing that we live amongst those types of people but yes the internet rules as so do the idiots. I would utilize the "real" forums should you develop something like that down the road.

I enjoyed reading your tweets (and Q's) as well. Its nice to be able to see another side of you and that you are happy, in love and showing the world. Thats what being in love feels like- wanting everyone to know and getting past the bullshit because nothing else really matters at the end of the day. I always thought it would be cool to be famous, but when you consider the other side, it seems it can be a burden at times as well. I will miss your tweets!

We, your true fans love you, and like I posted before- will be here when you get back. Take a long ass internet vacation, get married, enjoy wedded bliss, fuck like an animal and tell Q you love her everyday. The NIN community and I are not going anywhere.

Love from your home state-

Trent,
Take the high road. I've been there. See you on the flip side. Kudos for giving it a try. There isn't "one bad apple" on the internet... there are millions. It's not possible to weed them all out. Best to avoid them and find a new path. I'm glad to see you are still dreaming up ways to do just that. Keep up the good work. I'm happy for your happiness, you deserve it.

I'll post a reply anyways, though I doubt you'll see it this deep in the thread.
You've put together an amazing catalog for the past 20 years, and have spent a lot of that time in some sort of limelight. As a result, unfortunately you've attracted a lot of attention from the members of the human race that act subhuman. I could whine about how you're letting them win but at the end of the day your sanity is important, and it sounds like these dregs are really wearing on that sanity. I think the fans who appreciate you and your work for who you are, and not what they want you to be, would rather hear less from you than hear you slowly go insane, or hear you work your way into a Axl Rose or Roger Waters-esque outburst of anger.
I wish those losers just wallowed instead of begging for attention or lashing out at anything warm and mobile that approaches their pen, but I also wish I could fly, and both are about as likely. It still feels like you care more about your fans and try more to interact with your fans than a lot of huge names in the world do, and we appreciate your efforts.

If you are on Twitter do this:

1. Follow @spam
2. Send @spam a direct message when you see someone harassing another user
3. Give @spam the username and describe the harassing actions

Hopefully if @spam gets enough reports about user harassment Twitter will finally decide to include it in their Terms of Use and create a one-click way to report harassment, whether it's happening to you or someone else.

So much focus gets put on the bad eggs. It's unfortunate that someone like Trent gets bombarded with so much shit that he can't let his guard down for those of us who truly respect and admire him. There are many, many wonderful people out there, socially networking here on NIN.com and all over the internet. A more mutually satisfying relationship might have been had by all. How frustrating it has been at times to be a fan of someone so impenetrable. Judging by the overwhelming response to the donation meet and greet, I am not alone. Trent's fans have long been anxious to get to know him better.

This twitter and love thing has made it easier for me to let go of NIN. Musician Trent needed me to buy his records, attend his shows, participate in his websites - basically to add my two hands to the thousands of others holding him up. And I think I did a pretty good job of it. Trent in love doesn't need me. All I can do is hand him over to Mariqueen and wish him well.

And be ready with these empty hands should the need match the desire in the future.

I wonder if that was Trent's plan?

Everyone gets insulted on the internet.

Everyone gets insulted in real life.

But you handle things YOURSELF. You don't go getting all delete/ban happy.

And I agree with that gamerwoman3d person.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2009 08:15PM by PukeHead.

I knew there was a reason I didn't join Twitter and why I deleted my myspace account and why sometimes I wonder why the hell I still have a facebook account...that's probably why I only have like 3 or 4 posts on here too. Too much drama, too much invasion, just too much.

Seriously though, for all the good there is in the world, there seems to be that much more bad. The total accessibility to someone's life through the latest Internet craze is frightening. Let's face it, we're just fans. We're not friends, we're not buds, we're the people that buy the records and scream at the concerts, but that's it. Besides, wasn't it always supposed to be about the music, not the person behind it (no offense). Think about it, the songs that we all love and know every word to, and not just the NIN ones, all remind us of something in our life. Doubtful that they actually remind you of the person that wrote it or sang it, but of someone in your life that you love or possibly loathe. Isn't that what we're supposed to take away from it?

trent_reznor posted:

What you've seen happen with the marketing and presentation of NIN over the last years is a direct result of living next to you, listening to you, consuming with you and interacting with you. Directly. There's no handlers or PR people here, it's me and my guys - that's it. There's no real plan, even - it's just trying to do the right thing that respects you the fan, the music, and me the artist. That's the goal - a mutual and shared respect.

Many thanks for being so cool. As a fan, I've enjoyed this approach to interacting with fans and "marketing" - although as a fan, it doesn't really feel like marketing, which is what makes NIN and TR so great. You're trying to be "you" and hoping that your fans get it. I greatly appreciate that.

posted:

The problem with really getting engaged in a community is getting through the clutter and noise. In a closed environment like nin.com a lot of this can be moderated away, or code can be implemented to make it more difficult for troublemakers to persist. It's tedious and feels like wasted energy doing that shit, but some people exist to ruin it for others - and they are the ones who have nothing better to do with their time. Example: on nin.com, there's 3-4 different people that each send me between 50 - 100 message per day of delusional, often threatening nonsense. We can delete them, but they just sign back up and start again. Yes, we are implementing several changes to address this, but the point is it quickly gets very old weeding through that stuff.

When you reach the level of fame that you're at, there are going to be some crazies. You said that your interacting online with fans was an experiment, and implied that you were learning as you go, and I think finding efficient ways to deal with those folks is part of the experiment. I haven't seen your inbox, I don't think "idiots rule" is necessarily a true statement. From my experience on the internet, idiots don't necessarily "rule" - but they are the loudest and have the most free time to talk shit. Maybe being the loudest is all that matters on the net, but you've got over 600,000 Twitter followers and over 300,000 forum members, and I hate to see a few loud assholes ruin that relationship for everybody.

Personally, I'm a 31 year old fan, and I've got a lot more pressing stuff (job, family, schoolwork, etc) to do than spend time hassling TR on the internet. I post in the forum and respond occasionally on Twitter, but the time or two that I have considered pming or e-mailing you, I've had to ask myself, "What am I going to say?" Although you've put yourself out there to be contacted via pm or Twitter, I think the "mutual and shared respect" you mentioned involves me NOT sending you pm's unless I feel like I've got something relevant, or at least well-intentioned, to say. However, although you, I, and many other fans may share that sense of respect, there are some that don't. --Like I said, I think part of this experiment is finding a way to deal with them. Also, maybe a lot of fans are like myself, who tries not to hassle you, and there are likely many, many more of those fans, than the loud idiots who fill up your inbox.

I know you said "It's tedious and feels like wasted energy" having to work on solutions for those bad users, but your social networking experiment has mostly been cool, at least from a fan perspective. I mean, the forum and twitter are both pretty successful so far as reaching fans and recruiting new fans/followers goes. And it feels very cool as a fan to have some small access to TR himself.

posted:

Back to Twitter. I approached that as a place to be less formal and more off-the-cuff, honest and "human". I was not expecting to broadcast details of my love life there, but it happened because I'm in love and it's all I think about and that's that. If this has bummed you out or destroyed what you've projected on me, fair enough - it's probably time for you to leave. You are right, I'm not the same person I was in 1994 (and I'm happy about that). Are you?

A few years ago some people tuned me in to that world and when I figured out who these people were, I was amazed that I'd been seeing them in the front rows of the shows for months. I really don't understand what kind of "fan" spends that kind of time and money to travel across the country seeing a band, to then dedicate an incredible amount of time and energy into non-stop hate diatribes online. That one puzzles me a little.

Well, for example, some of the people I went to high school with are still stuck in 1991-94. Really. They were pot smoking goths back then and were in love with TR and Marilyn Manson. Most people mature and grow up, and have better things to do than be bitter that their favorite rock star has found love and has "changed" over the years. However, some people don't change. They plateau. Many of these people haven't changed or "grown up" and might never grow up. And they're bitter about you changing. They've got a lifestyle that they base around being a certain kind of person, sometimes defined by the music they listen to, and they hate it when a band's sound changes, much less when the lead singer/creative force gets online doting about being in love. They can't quit being a fan of the band, cause they've based their entire life around worshipping NIN/Manson (insert artist), or the "goth" lifestyle or wearing black t-shirts to work/school/etc, but they sure as hell can get online and complain about it. Like I said, when you're young, a lot of people worship a band or an artist, whoever, but as you mature, you realize that the artist is just a person, who changes like everyone else. But some people don't change - they want to live in a little time warp, and they want you to as well.

The real tragedy here, is that those guys and gals stuck in the time warp still wait with held breath for every new Manson release hoping for a return to form. (haha - couldn't resist jabbing the Manson fans. ).

posted:

Anyway, I'm bored on a long bus drive and there's no real moral to the story here, just writing. I will be tuning out of the social networking sites because at the end of the day it's now doing more harm than good in the bigger picture and the experiment seems to have yielded a result. Idiots rule.

As a bit of encouragement here, I want to say again that many fans are out there in the silent majority, and for us, the idiots don't rule. We're not following the idiots. We're just following the posts that TR makes, and we enjoy those. --You have to deal with the bullshit on the net, we don't, and to your credit, you gave social networking a lot of time and energy despite the assholes.

I hope you don't totally desert the open-ness that you've demonstrated the last few years. I'd much rather see you strictly filter what comes into your inbox or implement other changes than desert us altogether. Dealing with the assholes may feel like a waste of time, but if finding a way to deal with them helps reach the fan/artist relationship of mutual respect that you're looking for, then I think that's something that has to be dealt with, and isn't a waste of time...but is a real problem that needs to be dealt with.

edit: Congrats to you and Mariqueen, and I hope you enjoy the upcoming time off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2009 08:25PM by dolemite.

Truth is relevant to time, nobody sane would ask you to torture yourself to honestly express aggression out of some expectation they have of you, half of what I get from Downward Spiral times is you not wanting to be in that situation in the first place, but somehow dealing with it; but also if it's relevant aggression, it's honest in it's time. If you have an opportunity to enjoy simple things in life, no one can really blame you for living it. Consistent view points aren't natural because nature isn't consistent.

Always a reader and even feel like a stalker (twitter is not really my thing)...

I'm going to really miss reading from you TR, but whatever is good for you...

Bottom line - if someone's a real fan they'll enjoy the music, see it live as much as they can, and live their lives with it. I always talk to my friends about the amazing access that NIN gives its fans; seriously, what other band is putting a ton of HD videos shot from on stage for FREE!?!?! Any other band would package them on some DVD and make you pay $30. You've made it real cool for fans to interact and, for that, I am appreciative. It's sad that some of these idiots can ruin it for the majority of real fans.

I'm very glad & very proud that you're not the same person. Shame on them. I wasn't listening to NIN 'back in the day', so when I first saw pics of you back in the Marilyn Manson days, I was blown away! You are truly an inspiration; we are close in age and after seeing what you also did with your physical self woke me up and I have lost 75 lbs so far. I celebrated with getting my first tattoo...NIN in a heart over my left, er chest. Enjoy life with Mariqueen. I know she's spectacular. She's hand picked by you!
Thanks for accepting me into the nin community this late in the game. You have my total respect as an artist and my undying devotion as one of the sexiest people I've ever seen. Good Luck Trent, and thank you for the music that will take my into my next life and maybe even beyond!

Love,love,love,
Lulu
PS..THANK YOU FOR BRINGING ILAN INTO OUR WORLD!!!!! What a find!

Trent you have every right to be angry about the stalkers and haters. I don't blame you for wanting to end the fans' online access to you. But as an older fan, I think I should point out how problematic your 'plump and unattractive' comments are for fans.

In a post where you're calling people racist, its strange to see blatant sexism in the same text. You reserved your vitriol about physical appearance only for the women of Metal Sludge. We didn't see similar critiques of Fred Garritt's body or any of the other deranged, male stalkers you deal with.

The women at Metal Sludge aren't going to be hurt by your fat and unattractive diatribe. But your fans with body issues ARE going to be offended. My heart hurt when I saw some of your fans saying 'I'm fat and unattractive, Trent, but I've never said nasty things about you or Q.' It doesn't matter that you were only talking about the Metal Sludge women. You've still made yourself appear as someone who a) equates fatness with ugliness b)thinks a woman's body is there for a man to critique and denigrate as unfuckable whenever he doesn't like something she said. It's not the perceived fatness or ugliness that put Metal Sludge in the wrong. It was their hateful, nasty rhetoric.

No, you don't owe your fans jack shit. But I think you owe it to yourself to not engage in the same ad hominem antics as the asshats who attacked you.