Alot of NIN lyrics focus on Solipsism. To me, the album With Teeth is based on that theory.

A few corrections:

Down In It:

I used to be so big and strong.
I used to know my right from wrong.
I used to never be afraid.
I used to be somebody

I used to have something inside
Now just this hole thats open wide.
I used to want it all
I used to be somebody

Ill cross my heart and hope to die but the needle's already in my eye.
And all the world's weight is on my back and I don't even know why.
And what i used to think was me is just a fading memory-
I looked him right in the eye and said goodbye.

I was up above it.
I was up above it.
Now Im down in it.


**My interpretation of Down In It: Losing God and throwing off world views perceived to be false. Sacrificing a false stability and knowledge for a lack of knowledge or a nothingness that is, at least, real and true: "I used to have something inside
Now just this hole thats open wide." Note: Why did Socrates believe he was wise? Because while others claimed to have wisdom and knowledge about things but were really in ignorance or denial, Socrates knew (and admitted) that he didn’t know anything / a thing, which, paradoxically, was one thing more than others knew.

Theday01 posted:

Well Trent was raised to believe in the God and naturally he kind of rebelled and his belief system was shook up. Also plans don't always go the way you want to go.

I used to be so big and strong.
I used to know my right from wrong.
I used to never be afraid.
I used to be somebody

Consider these lines from a college drop out who used to excel at school.

Right, I guess disappointment with the way you turned out is a pretty common, if not universal, experience.

it bothers me that people take Nietzche's quote so far out of context. I'm not sure if you've read the whole passage, which for me, doesn't resonate at ALL with NIN lyrics at all. I agree about the solipsism comment though, I get that impression STRONGLY from Trent's work and although I am theistic, I associate with the lyrics because I am very aware that my perception of the world is skewed from what's actually out there, so most of the 'existence' that I understand is my own mind creating and trying to present relevant information in a meaningful way. Here's the entire section from Nietzche:

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!"
As many of those who did not believe in God were standing together there, he excited considerable laughter. Have you lost him, then? said one. Did he lose his way like a child? said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? or emigrated? Thus they shouted and laughed. The madman sprang into their midst and pierced them with his glances.

"Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whosoever shall be born after us - for the sake of this deed he shall be part of a higher history than all history hitherto."

Here the madman fell silent and again regarded his listeners; and they too were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern to the ground, and it broke and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time has not come yet. The tremendous event is still on its way, still travelling - it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the distant stars - and yet they have done it themselves."

It has been further related that on that same day the madman entered divers churches and there sang a requiem. Led out and quietened, he is said to have retorted each time: "what are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchres of God?"

machinations posted:

My interpretation (of Terrible Lie): Tries to convey the agony of someone wanting very much to believe, but, in the end, abandoning belief for what seems more real, for what is not a perceived lie.

you really didn't do anything with the text here but summarize it. i get that it was a starting point for your analysis of "Down in It," but you could've done that by mentioning the obvious interpretation of "Terrible Lie" without presenting it as if you're relating a unique viewpoint of TL. i'd never considered DII to be a religious song, so i consider your viewpoint on it unique; your words about TL aren't, and can't be to anyone who's bothered to read the words. it would have done a lot more for your topic if you just analyzed DII and mentioned how TL backs it up.

it's also a bit problematic to say that DII is informed by the religious subject matter of the song before it on the record. we know they were written at different times and that DII was written first, and we also know that any record borne of a collection of different songs (i.e. not a concept album with one long piece written in order) is sequenced after the fact for a variety of reasons that don't often have a lot to do with lyrical content. looking at PHM itself, God also gets mentioned after DII in contexts that infer that it/He/She exists (i.e. "covering up his eyes" in Kinda I Want To). so if TL is informed by the "God is dead" phrase alone, DII follows out the logical consequences of it, and then God is suddenly alive to cover up his eyes later in the album, you've got serious consistency issues.

either way, juxtaposing with Nietzsche's entire "God is dead" passage posted by innovati gives considerably differing results than juxtaposing with the statement "God is dead" alone: the former infers that no one has realized God existed and was killed off by people, while the latter simply says God was once there but has gone away forever. the blame for the act isn't considered in the lyrics at all.

edit: dumb emoticons



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2010 05:53PM by seasonsinthesky.

Down In It has minor overtones of the religious but it comes from Trent's "I'm writing lyrics about being fucked up on drugs and shitty relationships," period. It's more about chicks than it is men in the sky.

She said--

wjc3 posted:

You all strive so hard to have your voice be heard that you've lost your point in posting to begin with...your feelings on the art and WHY it's important to YOU.

<snip>

Look to the source. Then look inside yourself.

Bullfuckingshit. Author intent is law.

^
Haha!

OnslaughtSix posted:

wjc3 posted:

You all strive so hard to have your voice be heard that you've lost your point in posting to begin with...your feelings on the art and WHY it's important to YOU.

<snip>

Look to the source. Then look inside yourself.

Bullfuckingshit. Author intent is law.

Gold star awarded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2011 05:59PM by ChaseNine.

Then why does Down in it sound so cheerful? I think because he realized his independence from god, the song's about freedom.

OnslaughtSix posted:

Sheepdean posted:

OnslaughtSix posted:

wjc3 posted:

You all strive so hard to have your voice be heard that you've lost your point in posting to begin with...your feelings on the art and WHY it's important to YOU.

<snip>

Look to the source. Then look inside yourself.

Bullfuckingshit. Author intent is law.

Indeed. Case in point, "Who Wants To Live Forever" by Queen. The number of people who have claimed that this is about Freddie dying is ridiculous. But it's not, and no matter how many times you will it to mean that, it never will.

Not to mention the part where, you know, it was for the Highlander soundtrack. A movie about people who are immortal. Seriously. Sometimes things just are.

Well, it was also about Brian's dad, and "death in general" like half of Queen's stuff. But some people can't accept that the other 3 members wrote just as many songs and were just as talented.

Anyway, offtopic

earthbound posted:

Why do song lyrics always have to be broken down into grandiose philosophical themes? I love philosophy but to be quite honest, I find philosophy to be much more complex than any song lyrics I ever hear, whether from my favorite bands or not.

There may be similarities, but too often lyrics are way too minimalistic when held upon against philosophical concepts. That being said if it stimulates you thinking about the connections that's totally all fine and good, but I think it does some injustice to the complex meanings behind very detailed philosophical notions.

Agreed. The premise of PHM is simple to me. Some bitch tore his heart out of his chest, his faith let him down, he got hooked on drugs,life sucks, and he hates himself. What's complex about that? It's simple. That doesn't mean that it is not touching. Why does everything have to be complicated to be touching?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2012 10:22AM by jhendrie86.