Fuckin eh!!!

Dead_Goon posted:

Ok....

I know I will probably get jumped for this...but fuck it, I have been a NIN fan since Broken came out in 1992 and I am not about to support every little thing that comes out just because it's NIN, even if I have mixed feelings on it....

I am gonna be completely honest here, I am really on the fence about this idea...Like yes, Pretty Hate Machine currently sits at #3 on my favorite albums of all time, and has had that spot for quite some time now....But this just doesn't sit too well with me....kinda like the dinner that's just a little too greasy or upsets your stomach not to the point of utter sickness, but enough to be noticeably unconfortable...Here's why....and remember this is ALL IN MY OPINION...if you don;t like it or disagree by all means you are allowed to, but everyone has their own opinion and is entitled to it, so please respect that in regards to my following statement....

NOW, here is where I find problem with the idea, Don't get me wrong, I am in total agreement that a re-release is in order since Trent's break from major labels, hell even a deluxe package encorporating the unreleased tracks "Maybe Just Once" and "Purest Feeling" since they were the really the only tracks from that era that weren't released, but in any event, my problem with this stems from messing with the original mixes and production...That album was written, mixed, produced and edited by Trent when he was in a certain headspace...It was that emotion mixed with the technology of the time that makes that album the classic it was...

Trent has grown, matured, and learned one fuck of a lot since he made this album, and by going back and re-tooling something that, which was for the most part to a lot of fans, not as much about the sound as about the feeling and overall presence behiend it, and adding tweaks and mixing from his current state of being which is obviously not as pissed off/heartbroken/emotional as he originally was kind of taints a lot of what that album originally portrayed...I find it's like what's happening when Hollywood producers/directors go to make a remake....it's like treading on thin ice and/or like a Balloon bouncing on a bed of needles it can be a great remake, but the slightest off beat thing you can loose an entire part of the audience....The only thing here is, Trent originally made that album, so he has the upper hand in this scenario as opposed to some director trying to re-make Wes Craven or John Carpenter....Which is why I am not completely writing this idea/project off, I will most certainly purchase this and give it a hell of a fair chance, but it is gonna take something short of spectacular to be able to make this stand out for me...

But I'll openly admit, It's good to see Trent going back to his roots and righting the wrongs TVT and Interscope made...But, To be honest, I would LOVE to see a limited edition of this come out with "Maybe Just Once", and "Purest Feeling" on it, that way it gives fans a chance to officially own all the recordings out there from this era.

... nothing we currently know about this re-release involves changing anything musically (or even in regards to the mix). it's just remastering. nothing productionwise will change, just like the TDS deluxe version. the "original tapes" comment TR made seems to mean the full quality final mix of the record (facilitating a higher-quality remaster than simply copying the CD).

Dead_Goon posted:

seasonsinthesky posted:

Dead_Goon posted:

Ok....

[...]

NOW, here is where I find problem with the idea, Don't get me wrong, I am in total agreement that a re-release is in order since Trent's break from major labels, hell even a deluxe package encorporating the unreleased tracks "Maybe Just Once" and "Purest Feeling" since they were the really the only tracks from that era that weren't released, but in any event, my problem with this stems from messing with the original mixes and production...That album was written, mixed, produced and edited by Trent when he was in a certain headspace...It was that emotion mixed with the technology of the time that makes that album the classic it was...

Trent has grown, matured, and learned one fuck of a lot since he made this album, and by going back and re-tooling something that, which was for the most part to a lot of fans, not as much about the sound as about the feeling and overall presence behiend it, and adding tweaks and mixing from his current state of being which is obviously not as pissed off/heartbroken/emotional as he originally was kind of taints a lot of what that album originally portrayed...I find it's like what's happening when Hollywood producers/directors go to make a remake....it's like treading on thin ice and/or like a Balloon bouncing on a bed of needles it can be a great remake, but the slightest off beat thing you can loose an entire part of the audience....The only thing here is, Trent originally made that album, so he has the upper hand in this scenario as opposed to some director trying to re-make Wes Craven or John Carpenter....Which is why I am not completely writing this idea/project off, I will most certainly purchase this and give it a hell of a fair chance, but it is gonna take something short of spectacular to be able to make this stand out for me...

But I'll openly admit, It's good to see Trent going back to his roots and righting the wrongs TVT and Interscope made...But, To be honest, I would LOVE to see a limited edition of this come out with "Maybe Just Once", and "Purest Feeling" on it, that way it gives fans a chance to officially own all the recordings out there from this era.

... nothing we currently know about this re-release involves changing anything musically (or even in regards to the mix). it's just remastering. nothing productionwise will change, just like the TDS deluxe version. the "original tapes" comment TR made seems to mean the full quality final mix of the record (facilitating a higher-quality remaster than simply copying the CD).

That's exactally why I didn't say straight out that I was completely 100% against this idea, as if all he does is make it a higher quality sound then I'm totally cool and happy with that, it's the possibility of tweaking and touching the original mixes and effects that has been scaring me....if it's just a higher quality sound but the exact same as the original then I back it 100%

I really love your statement, it attests in its special kind what I feel about the re-issue. For me the PHM remaster is a highly positive experience.
Plus, there is "Get Down Make Love" on it!

OnslaughtSix posted:

dobyblue posted:

For PHM for example:

Pretty Hate Machine: Deluxe Edition [Blu-ray]
*entire album in 24/192 5.1 remastered from the original master tapes
*entire album in 24/192 stereo remastered from the original master tapes
*all music videos remastered to high definition (where source material allows) with new 24-bit audio
*live performance footage from 1990~1991 remastered
*archived interview footage
*new interviews about the remastering process and making the Deluxe Edition
*all b-sides remastered from the original master tapes to 24/192 stereo
*CD "digital copy" included with no drm
*voucher to download 24/96 .flac files of the stereo tracks
*MSRP $29.99 (Amazon pre-order price $24.99)

This shits all over anything digital downloads can do.

I hope you just made all that shit up.

I'm tired of Blu-Ray getting all the cool bonus shit. Fuck you people.

No I'm sorry, I didn't make it up, this is coming out on Tuesday December 21st, 2010, just in time for Christmas. Enjoy your palty 16-bit/44.1kHz CD though!

Just kidding, but this wouldn't fit on any other format anyway, so you would rather it just not see the light of day at all? Seems a bit selfish, buy a fucking Blu-ray player already.

rodheh posted:

scott_pawsey posted:

seasonsinthesky posted:

^ you're TIRED of it? wake up, mon ami — Blu-ray has barely taken off, and it's the current focus for most high quality entertainment content. if you're tired of its exclusives now, you'll be trying to off yourself in another year or two!

Yeah, blu-ray is set on track to become the default media pretty soon. Notice how in commercials now blu-ray is coming before DVD in the "Coming soon to blu-ray and DVD" line? It was the same thing when VHS died, except blu-ray was DVD. Everything dies and gets replaced eventually.

Yes, but in that case it's understandable as it's used as a video format.

Audio, I don't think it should be.

I actually had an idea for a new audio format in the past. 8/16 GB read-only SD cards. They could carry the lossless audio, and albums with any sort of bonuses would be upped into the 16 GB.

It's odd nobody ever used this sort of idea. Seems kind of ideal, really if you ask me. Compact, and you don't need to worry about damage like you would a disc.

It's a disc that stores data. Why should it be used for video and not audio? Have you ever 'listened' to a concert on Blu-ray? The AUDIO on Beside You In Time blows the DVD out of the water, completely, in every aspect.

Putting audio on an SD card is not a good a. What players support high resolution lossless audio through an SD interface? You'd have to hook it up to your PC, how many people have their PC hooked up to their main stereo system? Definitely a minority. What standards are in place for bonuses in terms of video content? .avi? MPEG-2? MPEG-4? VC-1? There would be so little standardization in place it just would be a gigantic mess.

But I can see where it would be good though, getting to see the album work in so much detail on the SD card's cover, lol. ;-)

Blu-ray can support 24-bit audio up to 7.1 at 96kHz and up to 5.1 at 192kHz as well as offering high resolution 1080p24 or 1080i60 video at the same time. Interactive menus, downloadable content through BD-Live to avoid double dipping, one cable, playable in ANY Blu-ray player as they all support 24/192 DAC's, 50GB of storage space...what's not perfect about it for audio usage? It's the fastest adopted media in history.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 08:15AM by dobyblue.

dobyblue posted:

No I'm sorry, I didn't make it up, this is coming out on Tuesday December 21st, 2010, just in time for Christmas. Enjoy your palty 16-bit/44.1kHz CD though!

Actually I'm going to enjoy my MP3s. Yeah fuck your apparent fidelity, I've never noticed a Goddamn difference.

posted:

Just kidding, but this wouldn't fit on any other format anyway, so you would rather it just not see the light of day at all? Seems a bit selfish, buy a fucking Blu-ray player already.

Yeah I'd rather not spend $200 on yet another machine that plays movies. I already have one of those; it's called my computer.

Plus "Blu-Ray" still looks stupid to me.

And besiding that, it'll obviously all fit onto a DVD set if they wanted to. Just look at AVOTT. Plus, I'd rather see all of that stuff released online anyway. (And it'd just get pirated anyway, so I can watch it on my computer. Which I would do in the first place anyway! Cut out the fucking middleman already.)

posted:

What standards are in place for bonuses in terms of video content? .avi? MPEG-2? MPEG-4? VC-1? There would be so little standardization in place it just would be a gigantic mess.

Use VLC. You now never have a problem with video files not playing ever ever again. VLC handles motherfucking everything.

Dead_Goon posted:

Ok....

NOW, here is where I find problem with the idea, Don't get me wrong, I am in total agreement that a re-release is in order since Trent's break from major labels, hell even a deluxe package encorporating the unreleased tracks "Maybe Just Once" and "Purest Feeling" since they were the really the only tracks from that era that weren't released, but in any event, my problem with this stems from messing with the original mixes and production...That album was written, mixed, produced and edited by Trent when he was in a certain headspace...It was that emotion mixed with the technology of the time that makes that album the classic it was...

Welcome to the boards, Dead_Goon, and I don't think anyone should jump on you for your comments. My response would be, simply, keep your old copy. As I stated earlier in this thread, I want to keep my original copy of PHM so that I can go back to it as I remember it, but I would also like to have an upgrade as well. If the new release is radically different from the original pressing and is not to your liking, just go back to your original album.

That said, we don't know how much the new version will differ from the original. I don't think that Trent will go all George Lucas on us and fuck with the integrity of the original, by adding a bunch of unnecessary shit and tweaking it to death.

In other words, with the new release of Pretty Hate Machine, Han still shoots first.

Sorry, seasonsinthesky, but I disagree. Beside You sounds raw and live, And All is a little over-cooked in the mixing department.

dobyblue posted:

Digital downloads for high resolution are just not at the point where they're feasible yet, and they remove all the options Blu-ray adds to the mix.

Bullshit: [www.paulmccartney.com]

$30 gets you pretty much all of the audio/video content you listed that a physical Blu-ray would offer... in one deluxe digital download, with no cumbersome physical discs. You even have the option of lossless high-definition tracks with NO over-compression/limiting — just full-range 96 kHz/24-bit audio (192 kHz is really only suitable for super-high-end classical recordings, IMO). Just unzip, and it's ready to play in mobile devices, home theatres (simply burn the files to a DVD-R), or anywhere else you want.

A marvelously elegant download solution for audiophiles, and from PAUL FUCKING MCCARTNEY of all people (of course, Topspin's back-end makes it possible).



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2010 11:57PM by botleysmith.

I actually have that exact picture on an older Pretty Hate Machine T-shirt. Still pretty cool.

posted:

For PHM for example:

Pretty Hate Machine: Deluxe Edition [Blu-ray]
*entire album in 24/192 5.1 remastered from the original master tapes
*entire album in 24/192 stereo remastered from the original master tapes
*all music videos remastered to high definition (where source material allows) with new 24-bit audio
*live performance footage from 1990~1991 remastered
*archived interview footage
*new interviews about the remastering process and making the Deluxe Edition
*all b-sides remastered from the original master tapes to 24/192 stereo
*CD "digital copy" included with no drm
*voucher to download 24/96 .flac files of the stereo tracks
*MSRP $29.99 (Amazon pre-order price $24.99)

This shits all over anything digital downloads can do.

If this was on a Blu-ray disc, I really would hope the high-rez editions are not maxed out with compression...and my assumption is that they wouldn't be. Like the great recordings out there from the hi-fi labels - let's hear some real dynamic range!

For the few of you out there who turn a blind eye at the Blu-ray because you don't understand it - take some time to understand it. It's not just a movie format. It's a high resolution music format that's poised to replace the CD.

If Blu-ray doesn't fit into your entertainment system/listening preferences - that's fine...no reason to bash it. Just know though, it's Trent who is providing the Blu-ray for us fans. He CLEARLY CARES about the high quality presentation of his music and without a doubt he'd tell you to give a listen to the Blu-ray disc at least just once. It's him that's giving us fans the ability to choose between the various formats and I highly respect him for that. I honestly think he's a hi-fi guy when it comes to his music. Not only has he been quick to support high resolution audio and video platforms for his content, but I also recall his not so pleasant comments back in 2005 when "The Hand that Feeds" was leaked out on MP3s before it was released...not necessarily because of the leak itself, but because he wasn't happy that the fans' first experience was through a digital download listened through computer speakers. He was basically saying 'Is this how you really want to enjoy my art?'

Paint over the Picasso.

But Trent's been smart to embrace the downloading of "clean" music files. He's catered to the crowd that listens to "music on the go" in the form of downloads. That, for many people, is the only way they listen to music.

He has also embraced the high-rez formats, giving the absolute best for his fans who listen to music in the more "traditional" way: sitting in a chair between two speakers and listening to a NIN "performance" in their own living room.

posted:

Yeah I'd rather not spend $200 on yet another machine that plays movies. I already have one of those; it's called my computer.

Plus "Blu-Ray" still looks stupid to me.

And besiding that, it'll obviously all fit onto a DVD set if they wanted to. Just look at AVOTT.

You must realize that most people don't watch movies on the computer. That is a small fraction of the population. Not only is the screen small (32" and under), the sound quality poor, but it's uncomfortable as hell. Sitting at a desk is not my idea of a comfortable movie experience. So much goes into the creation of films in post production...stylizing the image quality to create moods for storytelling is lost on small and uncalibrated monitors...and video cards commonly clip video images. All the work gone into sound design to create suspense...gone.

The principle for video Blu-ray is the same for BD-Audio. Bring a high-quality entertainment experience to the home for those who want it. There has been no home video format to deliver video quality close to studio masters in our home. We still have some progress to do on that front, but it's a good stepping stone to get there.

AVOTT is not my idea of a high quality Blu-ray set. It's AWESOME what the fans did, but it absolutely pales in comparison to a properly produced set. I'm sure that those who put their time into it did the best they could, but the video quality is relatively poor for HD (raised black levels, desaturated colour, lots of artefacts/compression). On a 50" screen and up, it doesn't look so pretty. On an 8-foot screen...it's a bit of a mess. Same with the audio. It's not very dynamic. Bass isn't that pronounced. There is no dedicated LFE with any ooomph (if running all channels without bass management). The difference with this versus something I buy in a store is that I know it's not going be be close to perfect before even putting the disc in. I watch it purely for the entertainment and joy of being able to see this concert at home. So I'm not disappointed at all. Now, if I had purchased this disc at a store and it was created and sold by Trent & Co., then I'd be raising a lot of hell because my expectations are higher. And there ARE Blu-ray discs out there that have disappointing video quality (David Gilmour live rings a bell of disappointment). Sloppy care going into the work or just bad source? Not sure...

My point is we definitely need the "middle man" to create good content. We do need some middle man to sell it - even if it's Trent himself giving the final approval.

posted:

I'd rather see all of that stuff released online anyway. (And it'd just get pirated anyway, so I can watch it on my computer. Which I would do in the first place anyway!

So you'd pirate Trent's work? If I were Trent, I'd consider that a slap in the face from a so-called fan. He puts his hard work into creating the Deluxe Edition of Pretty Hate Machine and releases for sale. I guess artists should work for free. The liner notes in the new edition should say "Thank You to all of the fans who support me, and Fuck You to all who pirate me."



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2010 10:34AM by Mike_Osadciw.

OnslaughtSix posted:

Plus "Blu-Ray" still looks stupid to me.

I don't know much about the technical differences, but for two reasons, I do kinda wish HD-DVD had won out. 1. The icon was better. Who the fuck in the fucking world likes that fucking lowercase "b"? (Wait -- I know I shouldn't say this, but I just realized something... something I can't say here. Shit.) 2. Sony, in league with the RIAA and the MPAA and heaven knows what other maleficent forces of capitalism-gone-overboard, are no longer the kind of company whose "sponsored" favorite technologies I care to support.*

Hopefully digital downloads will kill the BD (obviously I'm referring to totally legal downloads), stopping it in its tracks.

*Trinitron monitors, were superb, however, back in the day -- and let me tell you, DVD looks EVERY BIT as fine as HD on a Trinitron tube. CRT4EVAR -- FUCK YEAH!!! ANALOG RAWKS!!!

Mike_Osadciw posted:

posted:

For PHM for example:

Pretty Hate Machine: Deluxe Edition [Blu-ray]
*entire album in 24/192 5.1 remastered from the original master tapes
*entire album in 24/192 stereo remastered from the original master tapes
*all music videos remastered to high definition (where source material allows) with new 24-bit audio
*live performance footage from 1990~1991 remastered
*archived interview footage
*new interviews about the remastering process and making the Deluxe Edition
*all b-sides remastered from the original master tapes to 24/192 stereo
*CD "digital copy" included with no drm
*voucher to download 24/96 .flac files of the stereo tracks
*MSRP $29.99 (Amazon pre-order price $24.99)

This shits all over anything digital downloads can do.

Damn. I had no idea. That's frickin' awesome. This really makes my day!

that isn't actually what's going to be released. that was Mike_Osadciw's wishlist.

ninrogueX92 posted:

Would anyone be interested in sharing mp3 versions of the original PHM tracks? Some would decide to place mp3s on torrent sites and P2P connections...it would be great if anyone would have the privilege to share the tracks, (although Rob Sheridan will make the compare and contract) it may give a little more compare and contrast as a listener with good ears even though the tracks are remastered into a more enhanced quality...would anyone agree?

err, what? i'm pretty sure this release will stand alone. if you want the old version, you can buy it physically. they also may make it available from online marketplaces like Amazon and iTunes for cheapcheapcheap; this seems likely, as i'm pretty sure you can get it through Spotify in the UK. right Sheepdean?

if you don't already own the original or haven't heard it, there's not going to be a lot changed, methinks. it'll basically be louder, and possibly with greater presence in the lower mids and low end.

posted:

that isn't actually what's going to be released. that was Mike_Osadciw's wishlist

Actually, it was Dobyblue's. I just copied it...I actually thought it was real until I did a search of it. Seems like something reasonable... But, given all of the features that could be on it, it doesn't seem like I'd be able to just put the disc in a BD player and hit "play" without turning on the video like I could on a CD player.

That's what I want. High-rez (music) audio without the need to turn on the TV or projector.

This is awsome

beachpoet posted:

i think purest feeling and maybe just once are both cool songs. i never heard them since recently. i'd like to see them on the reissue.

Maybe one day Trent will see the error of his ways and release them in HD. For now, they won't be on there but at least we have them in the quality we do. Better than nothing!

Has anyone else seen this yet? Vinyl