Morbidpetal posted:

The Iraq war has NOTHING to do with "helping" the people. If American politicians really cared about helping people they would have helped out Rwanda first. The war on "terror" is like the war on drugs, pointless. There will always be drug dealers and there will always be terrorists. Hell we can't even take care of the Gang Bangers here in America, and yes they should be looked at as terrorist. Funny how the war on Iraq would be “over” just before elections, that is just President Bush’s last attempt to not go down as one of the worst Presidents in history.

smemily posted:

Absolutely.

And I agree that first we should cut spending before raising taxes in any area.

However, if we *have* to raise taxes, I think it makes more sense to raise them on the super-wealthy specifically, for a few reasons.

One is that they are more able to survive a tax hike. Another is that though everyone makes a fuss about taxes on the wealthy hurting business, I believe taxes on the poor/middle class will hurt business more. Since the poor/middle class comprises the vast majority of consumers, any tax increases to that base (esp when they're already struggling) will result in them cutting back spending in some areas. It will also result in more bankruptcy filings. (Tell me THOSE don't hurt business!) Also any time more of our population is unable to sustain themselves financially, we see a rise in crime. Which hurts business, again.

Conversely, if you raise taxes on Cheney's bracket, ($36,000,000 in 2000) it's not going to put him in the poorhouse. It's not going to cause job loss. Remember that is not his GROSS. It is is NET. That is the profit left *after* whatever jobs he supposedly creates.

If you look at Obama's tax plan
[www.suntimes.com]
there are tax increases on people earning more than $250,000. Not sure if that's single filers, or couples with families, but I assume it's single filers. For certain there are no increases on people making less than that amount, no matter their filing status.

Obama's plan posted:

Obama says he would hike several taxes on people making more than $250,000, including the amount they pay on capital gains. Currently, the top income tax rate is 35 percent. Under Obama, that would go back up to 39 percent.

Technically, that's not an increase- he's just repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.

And then this:

Obama's tax plan posted:

People in those high tax brackets would see the tax rate on their capital gains hiked from the current 15 percent to 20-28 percent.

I don't know how much you know about Capital Gains Tax. It taxes the sale of any non-inventory asset, pretty much that means investments like stocks, bonds, etc.

Also like you said the super wealthy are more able to manipulate our tax code, to pay the minimum tax possible. I agree with that. And I agree that $357k isn't an unspendable amount of wealth, but it's well into the 95% percentile of incomes in the country.

I don't think there's any way to raise taxes that doesn't hurt the economy in some fashion, but I disagree that raising the taxes on middle class hurts less than raising them on the super wealthy.

I appreciate the conversation, btw. It's nice to have a political disagreement with thought behind it.

hybrid756 posted:

Val, thanks for bringing the tax thing up again. I had no idea how that worked. I'm gonna look for an article on the huge fuckup Gordon Brown caused over here recently, tax-wise. -looks for articles-

valeriem posted:

I agree that a tax increase on the middle class would be very hurtful to the economy, no doubt about it. I am not in favor of it.

I agree that the top 5% of the wealthiest people could better handle a tax increase.

I'm a simple gal. How I see it is this;

Do you know a poor politician at the national level? I don't.

I firmly believe that most (not all) politicians serve themselves first, their buddies second, and then the American people. They have set up loop holes and tax shelters within the tax laws that benefit the very wealthy. So, on paper, a tax hike on the wealthy looks good. But, if the super wealthy already are skirting paying taxes to begin with, their bean counters are just going to figure out a way to avoid paying as much of that as possible. For an example, I saw recently that the Kennedy Family Trust was set up in Fiji. Apparently, they only need to pay 5% tax. Do you think the Kennedy's care about a tax hike? I doubt it.

Also* I believe that these super wealthy put their money in a family trust to avoid income tax altogether, maybe someone could shed some light on that, as I am not sure on that point.

[antiprotester.blogspot.com]

So, in essence, all this talk about taxing the wealthy won't affect top guns like the Bush family, Cheney Family, Kennedy family, etc...

posted:

It's all going to fall on the regular people, eventually.

posted:

Our government answers every problem by throwing money at it. They either create money out of thin air (what Gold Standard?)

posted:

or foot the bill to the people. Case in point, the Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac Debacle. Instead of holding them accountable for their gross mishandling of their assets and bad investments, they, on a fucking Sunday no less, when nobody's paying attention, declare that we, the people, are to bail them out to the tune of billions (I believe the estimate is now 300 Billion), because if we don't this country will fall apart financially. Why is it our responsibilty financially?

theresasc13 posted:

Just in time for election season W decides to try and become popular again with the war in Iraq. How existentially Republican or for that matter how politician.

Yesterday reminds me of how sad I am still for my country and hope for real "change" in the coming election. I hate being referred to as the "Imperialist USA", as I over heard at a pub in Toronto this past spring. I didn't vote for this b.s. and just like anything hate that I am pegged this way because this was forced on me and the rest of my country.

Please, please, please, please listen to a venting musician and pay attention to what is happening in the world and this election as noted in the main pages post!

Thank you.

valeriem posted:

I believe that these super wealthy put their money in a family trust to avoid income tax altogether, maybe someone could shed some light on that, as I am not sure on that point.

hybrid756 posted:

Well, this is worrying.

Part 1
Part 2

As a concerned UK citizen, I'm just pondering the fucking mess that McCain, Palin and Brown could lead us all into.

We're all going to hell.

Beatrix posted:

hybrid756 posted:

Well, this is worrying.

Part 1
Part 2

As a concerned UK citizen, I'm just pondering the fucking mess that McCain, Palin and Brown could lead us all into.

We're all going to hell.

You are right to be concerned, if they went after Russia the mess would be huge.

Nord stream gas pipeline

nexus6 posted:

http://www.alternet.org/story/98502/mccain_and_palin%27s_top_20_lies%2C_myths_and_flip-flops_/?page=entire
Make sure to inform your friends and family.