nin.com news 12.11.08: Regarding NIN Music Used at Guantanamo Bay for Torture
 
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12/11/08 2:10 PM

erraticme posted:
The same laws that enable TR to sing about fist fucking enables people to listen to it while fist fucking....or torturing people. Intellectual property laws are developing too slow to be useful, unless the copy of the song was pirated, and unless that can be proved. Using NIN songs during "interrogation" implies TR approves of the methods used, etc, which could constitute defamation. It will be interesting to see how far this goes - class action?

Defamation is what I was thinking.

 

12/11/08 2:11 PM

FernandoDANTE posted:
arfuswrinkledinks posted:
Of course all of the fans are going to agree with Trent. If he said "Awesome! They're using NIN's music to torture prisoners in Guantanamo Bay!", everyone would agree with him.
Not all fans. Just the really stupid ones.

Torture on any level is completely unacceptable! Doesnt matter the means..

 

12/11/08 2:11 PM

I can't imagine how it feels to know your music, what you live for, your work and love, it's been used for such horrible thing as torture... I really feel bad right now..

 

12/11/08 3:11 PM

It's possible that he could sue for defamation in this case as he doesn't want to be associated with this sort of thing. He could have done it when FOX News aired that documentary that used his songs.

 

12/11/08 2:13 PM

leo3375 posted:
NINtrentreznor posted:
What the fuck is wrong with those bastards? Trent, sue their goddamned asses! That's fucking disgusting! Its supposed to be a piece of art, not a way to torture people. That's bullshit! Get their asses, Trent!

That's the issue, though: Can anyone really be sued? And if so, who is accountable? Is it Universal, which owns the rights to songs like MOTP and most likely sold the license to those who used it for evil? Or is it the US government, who bought a license to use them however they liked? Or was it a third-party group that bought the license?
But do they even need a license to use music as torture? It's not like they're using the song on a TV spot to make some extra profit.

Do you need any license to play NIN's music at a record store? At a mall? At a bus station? I know torture is a totally different thing, but still, it's non-commercial use.

 

12/11/08 2:14 PM

I suppose if a musician loves Gitmo, maybe they would be happy that their music is used in that manner.

I can see why they chose the music they did. It's everything that the prisioners hate. It goes agianst their beliefs and it probably got on their every last nerve.

But, no matter how you slice it, it is hurting Trent and if his fans aren't there to support him, who the fuck will?

And, quite frankly, if some you don't know that this would be insulting to Trent, then maybe it's time to go to NIN school.

 

12/11/08 2:15 PM

FernandoDANTE posted:
leo3375 posted:
NINtrentreznor posted:
What the fuck is wrong with those bastards? Trent, sue their goddamned asses! That's fucking disgusting! Its supposed to be a piece of art, not a way to torture people. That's bullshit! Get their asses, Trent!

That's the issue, though: Can anyone really be sued? And if so, who is accountable? Is it Universal, which owns the rights to songs like MOTP and most likely sold the license to those who used it for evil? Or is it the US government, who bought a license to use them however they liked? Or was it a third-party group that bought the license?
But do they even need a license to use music as torture? It's not like they're using the song on a TV spot to make some extra profit.

Do you need any license to play NIN's music at a record store? At a mall? At a bus station? I know torture is a totally different thing, but still, it's non-commercial use.

Again, Jefferson Starship, White Rabbit in Panama late 80's. I wonder if they sued and if they got anywhere? I havent looked it up yet.

 

12/11/08 2:16 PM

trent reznor posted:
Thank GOD this country has appeared to side with reason and we can put the Bush administration's reign of power, greed, lawlessness and madness behind us.Trent Reznor

AMEN!

 

12/11/08 2:17 PM

the_fragile posted:
That wouldn't work.. It would be great if it did, but trent publicly said more than once that we 'can steal everything he puts out, that he didn't care anymore'.

With that, any judge would turn him down on a copyright infringement case.

What might work is the unity. People have to sign petitions for the UN to ban the use of music as torture, and to ban the torture altogether. I saw that some people mentioned that we, as fans, have a role to play. That, we do. Get involved, read on it, be informed, then add your voice to the protest.

I also heard in the news that some bands are to impose a minute of silence in concert. I think that's a great idea.

No, that was a completely separate issue, it could work. I mean, there's a good chance it's possible. But as for whether any court would be willing to make a judgement against the government, that is unlikely because of the politics involved.

I completely agree on the unity thing, we need someone public, and very vocal to get organised behind. The minute's silence is a great idea. Partly because it's the kind of thing that people might see on the news and remember easily, so the reason for it is more likely to stick in their mind.

 

12/11/08 3:17 PM

FernandoDANTE posted:
But do they even need a license to use music as torture? It's not like they're using the song on a TV spot to make some extra profit.

Do you need any license to play NIN's music at a record store? At a mall? At a bus station? I know torture is a totally different thing, but still, it's non-commercial use.

Record labels will copyright albums for private home use only. They usually require a license in order to use songs for any sort of public use. They license to radio and satellite companies that publicly broadcast music, and will often get promo copies of albums to play in their stores. The promos are able to be played publicly but have to be sent back to the label if they ask for it back.

To summarize: If the US government (or whoever) bought a license for publicly playing songs, even in this case, it could be very hard to sue for copyright infringement.

 

12/11/08 2:18 PM

I feel for you Trent.
I hope you can get justice from this travesty.

 

12/11/08 2:18 PM

bashavusta posted:
trent reznor posted:
Thank GOD this country has appeared to side with reason and we can put the Bush administration's reign of power, greed, lawlessness and madness behind us.Trent Reznor

AMEN!

Only time will tell what this administration change will bring. Certainly alot of things need to be addressed.

 

12/11/08 3:18 PM

I'm disgusted,
Even an innocent person would eventually confess to anything under torture.

 

12/11/08 2:18 PM

I'm unfortunatly not shocked that militaries thinks that NIN's sounds are just like torture...ahhh old people..... I'm ok to go to jail if I can listen to nin all day!!!
sorry for my english,...french guy....

 

12/11/08 2:18 PM

As a huge NIN fan, it is hard to say but I really don't care what music they used. TORTURE is TORTURE and it is wrong. If they used government written music in this torture it is still TORTURE. Yes I think Trent should see to it that his music is no longer used and I can't imagine having something like your life's work abused as such. But as a people we need to look beyond the fact that our favorite band in NIN and see this for what it truly is...torture.

On a side note, Trent don't forget what else your music has been used for. Your music gives so many people hope. Listening to the Downward Spiral gave me someone to relate to in a tough point in my life. I thought 'wow I can;t imagine what he is going through but if he was able to pull through I know I can.'

Keep making amazing art Trent.

 

12/11/08 2:21 PM

Huh, it's not possible to punish someone through blaring Nine Inch Nails at them. Shit, I've been doing it to myself for years now, but then maybe that could explain some things. Maybe they got the idea from the Broken movie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 02:23PM by brokenmach1ne.

 

12/11/08 2:21 PM

how absolutely hideous!!! dear god.

please let us know if there is anything we (the group) can do to support you in seeking recourse on this matter. you should not have to stand by and endure this alone. you know we are behind you - remember that.

you are a good man trent reznor. very honorable and decent...

and yes, thank god the tyrant will no longer reign. you have no idea how i worried about this matter, although his term was near its end.

peace and love
xr

 

12/11/08 2:21 PM

doublen posted:
FernandoDANTE posted:
leo3375 posted:
NINtrentreznor posted:
What the fuck is wrong with those bastards? Trent, sue their goddamned asses! That's fucking disgusting! Its supposed to be a piece of art, not a way to torture people. That's bullshit! Get their asses, Trent!

That's the issue, though: Can anyone really be sued? And if so, who is accountable? Is it Universal, which owns the rights to songs like MOTP and most likely sold the license to those who used it for evil? Or is it the US government, who bought a license to use them however they liked? Or was it a third-party group that bought the license?
But do they even need a license to use music as torture? It's not like they're using the song on a TV spot to make some extra profit.

Do you need any license to play NIN's music at a record store? At a mall? At a bus station? I know torture is a totally different thing, but still, it's non-commercial use.

Again, Jefferson Starship, White Rabbit in Panama late 80's. I wonder if they sued and if they got anywhere? I havent looked it up yet.
Wikipedia doesn't mention anything on that.

 

12/11/08 2:22 PM

I agree with you 100% Trent. THIS is a big deal. THIS is a reason to fight for. This isn't like suing McDonalds over hot coffee.

 

12/11/08 2:24 PM

leo3375 posted:
FernandoDANTE posted:
But do they even need a license to use music as torture? It's not like they're using the song on a TV spot to make some extra profit.

Do you need any license to play NIN's music at a record store? At a mall? At a bus station? I know torture is a totally different thing, but still, it's non-commercial use.

Record labels will copyright albums for private home use only. They usually require a license in order to use songs for any sort of public use. They license to radio and satellite companies that publicly broadcast music, and will often get promo copies of albums to play in their stores. The promos are able to be played publicly but have to be sent back to the label if they ask for it back.

To summarize: If the US government (or whoever) bought a license for publicly playing songs, even in this case, it could be very hard to sue for copyright infringement.

Hm, interesting. Thanks.

 

12/11/08 2:25 PM

blezzz posted:
I'm unfortunatly not shocked that militaries thinks that NIN's sounds are just like torture...ahhh old people..... I'm ok to go to jail if I can listen to nin all day!!!
sorry for my english,...french guy....

Any music is painful when its turned up to 180+ some decibles in a tiny room. But put Nails in at that level and ears begin to bleed. Like going to a Ministry concert but with double the volume.

 

12/11/08 2:26 PM

FernandoDANTE posted:
doublen posted:
FernandoDANTE posted:
leo3375 posted:
NINtrentreznor posted:
What the fuck is wrong with those bastards? Trent, sue their goddamned asses! That's fucking disgusting! Its supposed to be a piece of art, not a way to torture people. That's bullshit! Get their asses, Trent!

That's the issue, though: Can anyone really be sued? And if so, who is accountable? Is it Universal, which owns the rights to songs like MOTP and most likely sold the license to those who used it for evil? Or is it the US government, who bought a license to use them however they liked? Or was it a third-party group that bought the license?
But do they even need a license to use music as torture? It's not like they're using the song on a TV spot to make some extra profit.

Do you need any license to play NIN's music at a record store? At a mall? At a bus station? I know torture is a totally different thing, but still, it's non-commercial use.

Again, Jefferson Starship, White Rabbit in Panama late 80's. I wonder if they sued and if they got anywhere? I havent looked it up yet.
Wikipedia doesn't mention anything on that.

Wikipedia isnt really a reliable source. I'll try to find that source. Thanks though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 02:26PM by doublen.

 

12/11/08 3:26 PM

It must suck to know that something you made which you want to have a positive effect upon someone is being used with full intention as a means to put someone in pain or discomfort, and I think Trent is right to feel insulted and to want to put thoughts into action over this. It's insulting to the musician as an artist for someone to take their music and see it purely as an aggressive and violent noise, probably not seeing any other meaning to it. I hope Trent and the other musicians involved get the outcome they want from this mess.

 

12/11/08 2:27 PM

Well said Trent. I was horrified. Go for them by the jugular.

 

12/11/08 3:28 PM

That is horrifing the way prisoners are treated. They are human beings for crying out loud. Now the prisoners are being sent from Guantanomo to Europe as Portugal has already agreed to take on some of the prisoners. I don't think it was appropriate for officials to start using music without the artist's permission and I am sure some idiot musicians out there like Toby Keith wouldn't mind, but the CIA should not use any form of torture as a means to get people talking. One of the members of Drowning Pool thought it was an honour that the CIA used their music as it would help to prevent another 9/11. After Bush heads out from office, should be interesting to see who tries to get him for crimes against humanity. If I were a musician I would be horrified that they would use my music as a form of torture. Right on Trent, i agree with your statement!

 

12/11/08 2:28 PM

One word sums up the whole of Bush's reign: ETHNOCENTRIC!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 05:18PM by Avinelek.

 

12/11/08 3:28 PM

I am so fucking disgusted with the measures that the Bush administration has taken over the years with the prisoners there. Using someone else's pride and joy for such sick and twisted torture is just plain WRONG. I hope legal action is taken, and fast.

 

12/11/08 2:28 PM

Haven't really read the rest of the thread so if this already got mentioned, don't hit me...

But erm, didn't Al Jourgensen experience a similar thing a couple of years ago in which he sued (if I remember correctly) the US government for using Ministry music for the torture of Iraqis?

Oh yeah, I remember reading an article in a newspaper stating that Deicide was the most popular music to torture "terrorists" with. Apparently Metallica were the only band who were actually proud about their using being used for torture, something about "their contribution in the War of/on Terror"...

 

12/11/08 3:28 PM

Thank god they are shutting that place down. I'm really sorry - I hope legal actions works.

~J

 

12/11/08 2:30 PM

"According to an FBI memo, one interrogator at Guantanamo Bay bragged he needed only four days to “break” someone by alternating 16 hours of music and lights with four hours of silence and darkness"

What has the world come to..I would be upset too and I hope you do take legal action on this. You created art..not a weapon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 02:31PM by trentswretched666.

 
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