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nin.com news 12.11.08: Regarding NIN Music Used at Guantanamo Bay for Torture
 
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12/11/08 2:31 PM

If you find it insulting that your music is being used to torture people, then how do you explain the Broken Movie?

I'm just kidding.

But anyone stupid enough to think that listening to any music, let alone NIN, qualifies as torture deserves to suffer brutally.

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12/11/08 3:34 PM

FernandoDANTE posted:
leo3375 posted:
NINtrentreznor posted:
What the fuck is wrong with those bastards? Trent, sue their goddamned asses! That's fucking disgusting! Its supposed to be a piece of art, not a way to torture people. That's bullshit! Get their asses, Trent!

That's the issue, though: Can anyone really be sued? And if so, who is accountable? Is it Universal, which owns the rights to songs like MOTP and most likely sold the license to those who used it for evil? Or is it the US government, who bought a license to use them however they liked? Or was it a third-party group that bought the license?
But do they even need a license to use music as torture? It's not like they're using the song on a TV spot to make some extra profit.

Do you need any license to play NIN's music at a record store? At a mall? At a bus station? I know torture is a totally different thing, but still, it's non-commercial use.
you do in fact need a license to play to ANY copyrighted music in a mall or a restaurant or a bus station. i found this out when i managed a pizza shop in the burbs and a rep from ascap stopped by MULTIPLE times to let us know that we were publicly playing music we didn't have a right to broadcast. cd, radio, any of it was unlawful if it wasn't private play.

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12/11/08 2:35 PM

if it happened to me, I'ld kill

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12/11/08 3:35 PM

Here's a point that was brought up in a discussion about this on ETS:

The military often contracts its prisons and security to third-party companies. Now, if the US government bought the license to the songs but it was a contractor who was using them for this sort of sensory overload, it's entirely possible that it would be a copyright infringement as the contractor would also need to buy a license to use the songs for "public presentation."

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12/11/08 3:36 PM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2009 12:09PM by Inez.

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12/11/08 2:37 PM

TheGreatCollapse posted:
If you find it insulting that your music is being used to torture people, then how do you explain the Broken Movie?

I'm just kidding.

But anyone stupid enough to think that listening to any music, let alone NIN, qualifies as torture deserves to suffer brutally.

Not if your ears a bleeding.

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12/11/08 2:39 PM

Wow, what the hell? I hadn't heard about this yet but I will definitely look it up now. Trent, that's really fucked up that they play YOUR music to torture people. I don't understand it. They need to play useless music like Katy Perry or something like that. Music from her dumbass would make anybody wanna kill themself if they heard it 24 hrs a day. I'm sorry that some people don't appreciate the music that you have definitely poured your heart into to make. I'm sure it was hard hearing about that, but you have MILLIONS of fans who support you 100%. I hope you will be able to do something about this. Have fun with the last 2 tour dates this year!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 02:47PM by Andrea16.

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12/11/08 2:40 PM

the hell is this?? America gets better and better doesn't it. music for torture, what next video games and movies???

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12/11/08 2:41 PM

jesus trent. i feel sick. I cant imagine what your feeling right now. ughhhhh


sue them. sue them so fucking hard.

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12/11/08 2:41 PM

I can see why NIN is upset.sad smiley
And they take our taxes to pay for it too! That's one very personalized reminder that the unilateral push for the military-industrial complex is going strong. Patriot Act minus Geneva Conventions = Year Zero landscape.

They are going to do what we don't force them to stop doing-- but in the meantime we can make it a lot harder by turning up the media spotlight, artists like NIN getting together taking legal actions, and electing better presidents (check). Thanks NIN for not giving up here and fighting it any way you can. (Unlike Zensmile, looks like it's too late for him.)


The article on msnbc says "The spokeswoman for Guantanamo’s detention center, Navy Cmdr. Pauline Storum, wouldn’t give details of when and how music has been used at the prison, but said it isn’t used today. She didn’t respond when asked whether music might be used in the future."

I don't like when they don't respond...

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12/11/08 3:42 PM

Think about it this way: When you're at the store or at work, music can become just another white noise in the background. You're doing other things like shopping, typing, running from desk to desk on errands, etc.

Now, imagine being in a barren cell with nothing on the walls and two speakers mounted in the upper corners, blaring music at a level that can do significant hearing damage for hours on end. Doesn't matter what it is. Eventually, you'll crack and say exactly what those doing this to you want you to say, even if it isn't the truth. You just want it to end and you want to hang onto whatever sanity and hearing you have left.

This is an example of sensory overload, a form of psychological torture.

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12/11/08 2:42 PM

there was a copyright issue between a club here at the resort. The owner's got sued for playing certain bands music on loud speakers. They had to settle the case with the "Bands" who had their music stolen for public use. If a club can be sued why not the government for misuse of copyright? There are allways technicalities to every case but weather it be citizen or corporate law there should be a way to do something. Just gotta pay a "GOOD" Lawyer to find the facts. If they know their stuff you should be able to win a judgement against the government. Let me again stress the word "GOOD LAWYER" Trent I'm sure it is within your means.

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12/11/08 2:44 PM

Ok, I cant find anything on that right now. I dont really have time to fully research it. But I thought it was White Rabbit that was being played. I could be all messed up on that one. It could be they played white noise at ridiculous levels to make the Panama guards back down so they could get to Noriega.

White Noise, White Rabbit....eitherway, torture. (Not that I dont appreciate the Starship, just that song is crazy trippy.)

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12/11/08 2:46 PM

Here is an old article concerning this matter, if anyone is interested.

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12/11/08 2:46 PM

The good news is that now everyone knows about it and can do whatever it takes to stop it.
Our government is shit right now, and I'm sure...I'm sure this will be one among many
things that will start to come out as George goes out.

Trent, Please let us know what we can do to help. Clearly passing along news of this atrocity is one thing.

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12/11/08 3:46 PM

Take them to court and fist fuck the shit out of them!

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12/11/08 2:47 PM

They must buy a CD for each prisoner. Otherwise, it's "public
performance" and thus a copyright violation.

You can use RIAA and sue the US military.

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12/11/08 2:47 PM

Oh man, that is the single most upsetting thing I have heard so far since the last controversy calmed down.
I am glad you are willing to fight!

Once you are advanced on your options keep us posted!
And maybe, if justice does exist - and I am willing to question this as a non-US citizen in the US - the fans could make suggestions to which possible projects help could go from this!!
Just an idea!

Best,
Malarija

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12/11/08 2:53 PM

There is a sad AND sick kind of irony in this story, being that "March of the Pigs" is used as a mean of torture (mainly Muslimic) "prisoners" and abductees, and not any other NIN-song (and there are songs with a more prominent torture-theme or even louder and more violent sound).
Last time I checked, "March of the Pigs" was about an aggressive, inhumane, cannibalistic society tearing itself apart, kind of a very fucked up LSD-trip meets "Animal Farm"... you all know the lyrics - "The Pigs have won tonight!" etc...

And whoever picked those songs was propably not just some Jarhead with taste, but a highly trained military expert with at least some form of psychological background. Someone who was paid to come up with an idea like "This song should be used to torture a human being with such a background".

Plus the obvious thing, the Islam's specific opinion about swines in general.

Seriously, I'm very freaked out by this story.
I'm German, so I know a thing or two about dictatorship, and I can tell you, such behavior is FAR OVER THE EDGE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 02:54PM by John Doe.

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12/11/08 2:53 PM

leo3375 posted:
Here's a point that was brought up in a discussion about this on ETS:

The military often contracts its prisons and security to third-party companies. Now, if the US government bought the license to the songs but it was a contractor who was using them for this sort of sensory overload, it's entirely possible that it would be a copyright infringement as the contractor would also need to buy a license to use the songs for "public presentation."

Good point smiling smiley

Also, (for starters), here's ASCAP's licensing types. Which means you maybe don't get general licenses, but need to specify in your application for a license how the music is going to be used once the license is obtained.

I posted the DMCA because that would leave it up to the court to decide whether it was fair use or not. And however they decided, it would create a shitload of publicity.

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12/11/08 2:54 PM

If it leads to information that can save lives then by all means torture then with music instead of physical torture. But first make sure the person who created the music is fine with the government using it. I am pretty sure the government could hire someone to make weird music for this. They just went the lazy route.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 02:56PM by Tanner.

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12/11/08 3:56 PM

This world never ceases to disgust me.
For so much joy there is so much pain....much of that we are ignorant to. I heard this on the radio this morning. If it was my music that was being used I would be enraged too!!! Music that is a life story in itself....a piece of your soul you have agonizingly plucked from the depths of your being. To be viewed as music deemed for torture and picturing the pain caused is just so profoundly gut wrenching.
SICK!

I have to say I never felt safe with Bush in power....I do not want to live in fear anymore. Obama has quite a mess to clean up.

Poor Trent having to deal with this disturbing situation. Such a long stressful process, and legal bullshit. But, passion is as passion does. I have full confidence legal action will be pursued by all parties, and at ANY cost is better than doing nothing.

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12/11/08 2:56 PM

TORTURE IS WRONG. It has been proven to be useless for reliable information AND it's not what America of all places should be about.

The playing of music over a wall into another country is different than having it forced into your ears, while being tortured other ways, in a language you probably don't know, with no way out for months is fundamentally worse. No comparison.

Gitmo in general is not a part of America I thought I lived in. It's a disgusting aberration made by those who grabbed power and used fear to do it. My opinion.

And remember, in the words of Skinny Puppy: "What goes around, comes back stronger"

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12/11/08 2:56 PM

Dugg

[digg.com]

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12/11/08 2:57 PM

shocking and disgusting...

it's simply revolting. i hope these people will be sued.

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12/11/08 2:58 PM

Looking through what people have posted I ask, why are we giving 'zensmile' so much attention? He obviously knows how we will react, so lets focus on responding our opinions to the man who really matters, Trent.

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12/11/08 2:59 PM

Oh my God!!! This is infuriating to me and i didn't even MAKE the music!!! Torture??? No matter whose music they use, torture is absolutely unacceptable. No decent artist is going to give their permission for such a thing, so everyone whose music was exploited should be able to sue -big time. Not that money is going to make the torture or the insult and taint go away.

Best of luck to you guys. I can't fucking believe this shit though. oh wait. i can (unfortunately)

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12/11/08 3:03 PM

WOW! This article blew my mind. If I were an artist and my music was used for torture, I would be sick to my stomach. I can't even imagine how Trent feels and the other musicians whose music was involved.

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12/11/08 3:03 PM

votiVe posted:
TORTURE IS WRONG. It has been proven to be useless for reliable information AND it's not what America of all places should be about.

The playing of music over a wall into another country is different than having it forced into your ears, while being tortured other ways, in a language you probably don't know, with no way out for months is fundamentally worse. No comparison.

Gitmo in general is not a part of America I thought I lived in. It's a disgusting aberration made by those who grabbed power and used fear to do it. My opinion.

And remember, in the words of Skinny Puppy: "What goes around, comes back stronger"

Whats happening now is completely different from what happened in Panama years ago. But the use of music in torture is not new. Its been happening for many years. I think it is horrendous what is happening but lets not forget about all the other types of torture they make these prisoners (most of whom are innocent) go through on a daily basis. Just imagine all of the torture that we will never know anything about. If we think this is bad...

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12/11/08 3:04 PM

SkullyBocks posted:
Dugg

[digg.com]

Ditto

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