doublen posted:

TheGreatCollapse posted:

If you find it insulting that your music is being used to torture people, then how do you explain the Broken Movie?

I'm just kidding.

But anyone stupid enough to think that listening to any music, let alone NIN, qualifies as torture deserves to suffer brutally.

Not if your ears a bleeding.

Oh well, in that case... holy shit. They can actually get away with permanantly damaging someone's hearing? That's like taking ground up broken glass and rubbing it into someone's eye... that's fucking sick.

WHAT THE FUCK?!?!!

Not only is torture unethical and in violation of the Geneva Convention, it doesn't even work. People under duress will say anything to make the torture stop. Glad that Trent took a stand on this.

Edit: Also, here is the Digg link for the MSNBC article.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2008 03:18PM by neraulia.

RogueJediPrincess posted:

I know this may sound crazy to some but I'm really not bothered by this. It sucks that they used NIN's music without permission but I do not feel sorry for most of those people.
I have a family member who works at the prison. He doesn't talk about what goes on there. He is a very honest and loving person, very good natured and kind. It is hard for him to be there and he does struggle with what goes on there. BUT Many of these people would murder you and your entire family without a moments thought. They would kill women and children without shedding a tear. Do they really deserve to be treated with kindness and respect if they have information that could save peoples lives? There is such a fine line here. Do some of them deserve fairness..of course, every case is different. But some whould slit your throat if you turned your back to them.
Policies need to change but sometimes things are for the best.It's hard to judge because we're not there everyday living through this and most of us have never lost someone due to people like this. Put yourself in other's shoes...sometimes things aren't black and white even if we want them to be.
Sorry if I offended anyone, it's not my intent.

Rogue, with all due respect, you are dangerously naive if you think that torture is justified, whatever the circumstances.
Playing NIN in the aid of torture is a war crime, and an insult to ALL artists and we have to do everything we can to stop governments from doing this. We are letting them get away with this! We let Bush get away with it. that is the point of 'Letting You'.

I don't even know how to form words for a response.

I am really disgusted. This is a huge insult. I'm mortified. Rock music (among others, but this was hits me hard) is a weapon for torture?

What else can I say.

Sorry...kind of have to laugh that the Barney theme-song is used as torture...at least they have a sense of humor...
Seriously though- it would make me sick that a part of myself that I've put out into the world would be used in such a destructive way. You would think they'd have to have the artist's permission to do this? If so, blare some Kid Rock or Toby Keith. I'm sure they would approve.

THAT'S WHAT I GET!!!

Thank you for your post, Trent. This story absolutely sickens me. I hate what the Bush administration has done to this country, and how those people have effectively ruined our status in the world. I could go on, however you get the idea.

I heard about this yesterday... I think it's stupid what they're doing at Guantanamo... stupid! stupid ppl! and it's insulting for the bands whose artistic creations are being involved... music is art and art was never meant to be used for tourture... art is freedom.

This is for the ppl who are doing this crap: Fuck off!

leo3375 posted:

FernandoDANTE posted:

But do they even need a license to use music as torture? It's not like they're using the song on a TV spot to make some extra profit.

Do you need any license to play NIN's music at a record store? At a mall? At a bus station? I know torture is a totally different thing, but still, it's non-commercial use.

Record labels will copyright albums for private home use only. They usually require a license in order to use songs for any sort of public use. They license to radio and satellite companies that publicly broadcast music, and will often get promo copies of albums to play in their stores. The promos are able to be played publicly but have to be sent back to the label if they ask for it back.

To summarize: If the US government (or whoever) bought a license for publicly playing songs, even in this case, it could be very hard to sue for copyright infringement.

King George the W pay for using it? I'm sure he thought it part of his royal privilege.

RogueJediPrincess posted:

I know this may sound crazy to some but I'm really not bothered by this. It sucks that they used NIN's music without permission but I do not feel sorry for most of those people.
I have a family member who works at the prison. He doesn't talk about what goes on there. He is a very honest and loving person, very good natured and kind. It is hard for him to be there and he does struggle with what goes on there. BUT Many of these people would murder you and your entire family without a moments thought. They would kill women and children without shedding a tear. Do they really deserve to be treated with kindness and respect if they have information that could save peoples lives? There is such a fine line here. Do some of them deserve fairness..of course, every case is different. But some whould slit your throat if you turned your back to them.
Policies need to change but sometimes things are for the best.It's hard to judge because we're not there everyday living through this and most of us have never lost someone due to people like this. Put yourself in other's shoes...sometimes things aren't black and white even if we want them to be.
Sorry if I offended anyone, it's not my intent.

You didn't offend me but I edited my quote of you. Maybe you can see why. Who gets to be the judge of who deserves what? What gives them that authority?

How is it that torturing or killing someone because they might torture or kill you makes the person doing the torture any better than the one who might have done it or may do it themselves?

If I shoot your dog and you poison mine... who among the two of us is the "evil" person?

Would either of us have truly discouraged the other from doing so again?

Finally, if SOME of these people are the bad guys, then SOME of them must be innocent. How do you justify the torture of those innocent people? The only thing that makes you any different from the innocent people enduring this torture is that they haven't found a reason to lock you up yet.

richiee posted:

don't forget 2 buildings worth of people being crushed, burnt, ripped apart, virtualy disolved.....you should be proud trent, your american, like it or not....

you get the chance to see how life is elsewhere around the world, i think thats whats clouding you, and in turn everyone here follows your lead to the letter....

sometimes you dont appreciate what you have untill its took away from you, throughout the whole bush administration you remained rich with money, oil or slinging music whats the difference?.....you and bush both profited from american dollars as well as worldwide...

the most evil people on earth are caucasians (white) which im one of,in america have you ever heard of a mass murderer serial killer ect that isn't white?

it's easy to pretend your not part of the problem, i guess thats the american way.

The mistake in this is that you assume that 911 was done by terrorists outside of this country. Another is assuming that we are still free. If you just sit back and say hey, America is the greatest country in the world and our government is doing everything in their power to keep us free and prosperous, then you dont notice the little freedoms they are taking away everyday.

THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU AND WILL DO ANYTHING TO PROTECT THEIR MONEY, INCLUDING FUCKING YOU OVER.

There is a HUGE difference between believing in capitalism and being a capitalist pig.

Some musicians, however, say they’re proud that their music is used in interrogations. Those include bassist Stevie Benton, whose group Drowning Pool has performed in Iraq and recorded one of the interrogators’ favorites, “Bodies.”

“People assume we should be offended that somebody in the military thinks our song is annoying enough that played over and over it can psychologically break someone down,” he told Spin magazine. “I take it as an honor to think that perhaps our song could be used to quell another 9/11 attack or something like that.”

The band’s record label told AP that Benton did not want to comment further. Instead, the band issued a statement reading: “Drowning Pool is committed to supporting the lives and rights of our troops stationed around the world.”

-from the MSNBC article

motherfucker is so ignorant. wow. to quell another 9/11 attack or "something like that". Something like that? Fuckin dumbass. How will torturing people already incarcerated stop a terrorist attack when the terrorists who will be doing the attacking AREN'T IN GUANTANAMO. that disgusts me. Drowning Pool is committed to supporting lives and rights of our troops? that has nothing, nothing to do with it. There is no correlation between the prisoners in Cuba and our troops abroad. The Bush administration wants you to think that, but that's total fuckin bullshit.

As for those who say they should be using artist's music? wow. Music is a weapon for truth, and for justice, and empowerment. Music is the universal language, and can send a stronger message than words can. If an artist allows people to use his music for torture, fine. But for the artists that don't, they should have a say in it. This has nothing to do with being patriotic as this kid "richie" says.

still though...wasn't Broken all about torture? i don't know...and Screaming Slave off of Fixed? torture themes. I think there's a reason they chose NIN, however fucked up it is

I'm probably shouting into a wind tunnel here, but everything that is mentally uncomfortable is not torture.

People picked up on the battlefield with a weapon are not innocent. Requiring a trial for every war prisoner would spell disaster. From reading some of these posts, you would think that we're randomly rounding up people who look "different" for no good reason... actually, some of you probably do think that is what we're doing.

The world existed before George Bush. In fact, Bill Clinton installed rendition. As many of you probably do not know, this means that instead of sending someone to an American-run prison on foreign soil, we can send them to foreign prisons where they have absolutely no rules about torture.

I do not agree with George Bush on everything, but this 'everything is Bush's fault' mentality is ridiculous, and forgive me, quite ignorant.

If Trent is upset that his music is being used for this purpose, that's his prerogative and I can't fault him for that. But I'm sorry, this is not torture. Possibly annoying, but not torture. You want us to give them cable TV and a daiquiri?

Again, I'm probably shouting into the wind here. Torture is slowly getting redefined here, until eventually being mildly annoying will be illegal.

You say you want a revolution, well you know..... Paul and John had it right. George, not so much, Ringo, definitely not.